Build Quality

Anything about BXs
User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6203
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 49

Post by Kitch » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:31 pm

For a start I'd say build quality relates more to trim and fit/finish than rust proofing surely?
I had a Xantia which was an absolute nightmare. But it still didn't rattle inside at all! My father had a '94 TD LX with no issues other than a clutch cable clip snapping once over a five year period. A good mate has an Activa, which at 145,000 is only asking for general wear and tear items to be replaced (and in fairness it drives better than ANY model of BX)

My 16v's been pretty good all told though, nothing has fallen off inside and the doors are fine. No rust other than the rear exhaust hanger really, and its never been undersealed.

But overall a Xantia is easily a better built car which it should be, seeing as its a much newer design.

User avatar
DLM
Our Trim Guru
Posts: 1569
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 6:41 pm
Location: Gosport, Hampshire, UK
My Cars: None since the last BX.
x 1

Post by DLM » Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:31 pm

Neither BXs or Xantias react well to being neglected - and a sustained spell of neglect will undoubtedly send either over the edge. I'm slightly surprised that the Xantia is cited by someone here as particularly rusty, since it was built on the Germanic model, like the ZX.

My personal prejudice (and I'll gladly acknowledge it as such) is against Xantia for just that reason - namely the design philosophy. I just didn't see the need for more metal in a Citroen. I also think you can't compare like with like here: the BX was built for a set of customers with quite different perceptions to the customers Citroen wanted with the Xantia.
Relying on two wheels and musclepower since the last BX (or any car) had to go.

tom
Citroen Sorceror
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:51 pm
Location: straddling the channel

Post by tom » Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:25 pm

That is a very valid point. The BX is made out of coloured air and sharp bits, the Xantia is lardy like a late Golf. Citroens were by tradition light and Peugeots heavy. Provided that they can be made safe, my preference as an engineer is for lightness but I can understand the desire for solidity, having pumped LOTS of petrol into Saabs over the years.

User avatar
cavmad
Keeper of the site Goat
Posts: 7857
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 9:13 am

Post by cavmad » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:21 pm

[quote="Kitch"]For a start I'd say build quality relates more to trim and fit/finish than rust proofing surely?


I`d go along with that too. I always thought reliabilty meant a car that would start and get you where you wanted without breaking down. That soon changed as soon as I had a Peugot where reliability meant bits falling off daily, squeaks/groans/rattles, electrical gremlins, doors that would only open when they wanted to and brakes that only braked when they wanted to.
I wish that rust had been the only problem as it wouldn`t have bothered me too much but build quality was abysmal and it drove me up the bloody wall in the end.
Vauxhall apologist.

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:40 am

Ha ha ha

Either this thread is an April fools joke or someone is still not fully recovered from his or her Christmas happy water.

To compare the bx and xantia in build quality is like comparing a ford to a Lexus!

There is no comparison, anyone who thinks a bx is better built than a xantia is clearly so biased to the bx its untrue, sure drivability or quirkiness yes the bx is better, built quality no way.

R.e rust unless the car has been in an accident or a life of being washed in grit, rust is a complete non-issue on xantia, even the earlier models. The interiors of xantia are long lasting and classy the paintwork is exceptional and shiny. I have yet to find car that is perfectly built, but the xantia is far far far (i think you get the point) superior in build quality to the bx... period.

adamskibx
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 950
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:26 pm

Post by adamskibx » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:55 am

Im pretty sure this thread is no joke, as 'build quality' really could be taken in differrent ways by different people, but I suppose in the mainsteam perspective it does mean how solid an interior looks and feels, and how hinges are screwed on. I think it takes a certain level of taste in cars and car design in order to apreciate that the BX is built as well as a car needs to be, given the lifespan of the major mechanical components that are made to very similar qualities by the mainstream manufacturers.

At the end of the day, they are only cars, but at the moment im driving a very 'well built' car (a Merc 190), and as much as I warmed to the tingle of the fast lane buz from its seemingly very powerful engine (seems a lot quicker than a 1.9 BX), any enjoyment from driving deminishes with contact of the hard German seats, lack of Hyraulic levelness, lack of Chevrons, and the lack of cheap look, but 100% functional, well designed facia plastic, that I never ever feel the need to punch. Biased? Umm, it depends how you look at it.

User avatar
cavmad
Keeper of the site Goat
Posts: 7857
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 9:13 am

Post by cavmad » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:42 am

Welcome to the forum dsgafsdfsd, though I don`t think everyone`s going to agree with your comments!
I`m not trying to pick an argument I promise but I`d defend the build quality of BX`s against the Xantia any day as I`ve been in a few Xantia`s and not one single car was a patch on the BX.
I freely admit I have had one bad BX (and I`m sure there`s loads more out there) but interiors on some models aside the Xantia has always felt like a flimsy, cobbled-together-from-the-chepaest-possible-components kind of car and it`s almost like they put absolutely no effort or passion into design or build quality.
Lots of people like Xantia`s of course and good luck to them but you`ll never persuade me that they are a better car.
Vauxhall apologist.

tom
Citroen Sorceror
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:51 pm
Location: straddling the channel

Post by tom » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:49 am

The man is right. The Xantia has much better build quality. The snag is that it is a much inferior motor car to the BX.

M

Post by M » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:08 am

D'You know - even I have to agree with Tom here.

I own & run a Xantia HDi - nice enough car, tows brilliantly, breaks down occasionally despite meticulous servicing.
But despite my short & troubled BX ownership, I do think the BX was a better motor.

Designed to do a job, and it did it well - only neglect & cut cost parts were its real let down - yet with careful ownership they do their job well for a long time.... that enough can be seen a plenty here, with lots of very nice examples still doing daily duty.

A lot depends on what you want from a car. I want something which gets me from a - b reliably and comfortably - and as cheap as possible. Thats why I ran a C90 for years when I worked locally and didnt have to carry patients about. Looked pants - but did everything I wanted and cost buttons. Bit like the ZX then :roll:

User avatar
Terry Brooks
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:53 pm
Location: No 1 at the end of the bar .....@Milton Arms,Rotherham

Post by Terry Brooks » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:58 am

Considering that most BX's are now well past their "sell by" date [ie over 13 years old] and even the oldest of the Xantias barely are that old I cant really see how a valid comparision can be made ......I've never driven a Xantia but I can only relate the experiences of two of my friends.
One had a petrol BX,he traded it in for a late model diesel BX,ran that for a few years and then traded in for a deisel Xantia,which he traded in last year for a 2 or 3 year old C5. Now this guy has no time for "clubs" ....He likes Citroens but to him his car is just a means of a-b , he buys a 2/3 year old example,runs it until it becomes troublesome and then gets rid of it for a newer one,he claims that the BX's were the the most comfortable,and the C5 is the most practical....no mention of the Xantia,it was just another car to him.
Another Citroen owner friend [who is also a 2CV owner and 2CVGB member] bought a diesel BX Estate three years ago ....it was nice but well worn and he recently sold it on and replaced it with a early diesel Xantia ....according to him the Xantia is a "bag o' sh*t*" ......it's needed new locks all round,the spheres were shot,theres a "clunking" from the front end that he cant trace what is causing it and he says he wishes he'd sorted the BX out and kept it.
I must admit however that with my BX coming up for MOT time ....if it fails expensively I'll be looking to replace it ....and I'd consider a Xantia if I could'nt find another TZD.
Terry
Dont let the 2CV fool you,I'm not a hippy,I like violence

User avatar
mnde
Meteor Man
Posts: 1453
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:10 pm
Location: Old Woking, Surrey

Post by mnde » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:42 am

Yes a lot of Xantias are well neglected, unfortunately. Sounds like your friend bought a lemon - but there are plenty of better examples out there too, if you look for them.

It seems that by the time all early Xantias have completely worn out their spheres and they need replacing, many Cit garages will have forgotten how to do them properly :roll: or they are so shot that the car gets passed on rather than getting it all sorted, so the next owner is lumbered with the prospect of getting them all done... by which time they are an arse to remove without breaking something, especially at the rear...

Mark.
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate
1997 Renault Mégane RT 1.4e
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - gone to Scotland

Jayboy
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:20 pm
Location: Isle of Man

Post by Jayboy » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:32 pm

Having had the joy of living with 4 or 5 BX's on a daily basis over the past 13 years, and 3 Xantias on a daily basis over the past 5 years I don't know how anyone could possibly compare them for build quality!!

The BX is tinny and generally has very poor fit and finish both inside and out (3 x '89, 2 x '90 and one '91 model) . Unless really looked after, the BX will show it's age very quickly.

The fit, finish and feeling of solidity on all the Xantias (94, 97 and 2000 models) is 200% better than the BX overall.

Admittedly, nothing other than mudflaps has ever fallen of the BX's (excluding front doors!). Xantia's have a habit of losing their rear door rubbing strips when you close the door, but the only other problem ever found with my highly abused Xantias was a rad replacement at around 8 years old and it wouldn't start one day when the glow plugs gave up (1.9 TD). In fairness it gave several months of warning so that was my own fault. I sold the TD to a mate who still has it and it has had no maintenance except for service items for 20k miles now. It's seriously abused and beaten up yet the paintwork under all the grime is still great!

Am I starting to sound like I like Xant's? I don't!

They are bland, boring and reliable. They don't handle and teh seats are rubbish and uncomfortable! Everything that my BX's aren't.

It took me three and a half years to get rid of my first Xantia (the 1.9 TD) after realising it was rubbish only 3 weeks after I bought it and swore never to buy another unless it was an Activa.

A year ago an Activa came up for sale for next to nothing with very low mileage. Yeah it's beaten up but has never given a problem, it's fairly fast and boy does it handle!! I could never love it the way I love the BX's but it's now a 'keeper'.

BX's are ace. For all their bad quality material, flimsy construction and unreliabilty from nearly new I just keep coming back for more. There's no other car for which I would put up with all the breakdowns for!

There's no contest. Xantia build quality is much better but BX's have soooo much character you can't help but fall for their charm!
CCC BX Columnist
'89 16v P1
'90 BX GTi 4x4, 16v P2, 19 TZI auto A/C estate
'92 BX 19 TGD (now 17 Turbo D)
'93 BX 19 TXD estate & 19TD van
'93 ZX Volcane TD 3 Door
'71 DS 21 EFi Pallas, '86 Visa GTi ,
'98 Xantia Activa P1
'07 C4 by Loeb
3 x 2CV, 1 x Mehari

tom
Citroen Sorceror
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:51 pm
Location: straddling the channel

Post by tom » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:45 pm

Breakdowns?
BREAKDOWNS?
I drive a BX because it doesn't.

User avatar
ken newbold
Over 2k
Posts: 4408
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:53 pm
x 5

Post by ken newbold » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:53 pm

Like wise.
They think it's all over, it is now!

User avatar
Ian_Fearn
Spender lotta cash on Citroens
Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Derbyshire

Post by Ian_Fearn » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:56 pm

My last BX was the most unreliable car i've ever had. Everytime i fixed one thing something else would break.

It was so frustrating because i loved driving the car so much.

In the cars defence though i didnt give it the attention it needed in the first place. What it really wanted was a thorough overhaul to begin with.

The only thing i couldnt have pre-empted was the failure of the ignition module.

Experience teaches me lots of important lessons!
Over and out from me