We don't know how lucky we are

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Oscar
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We don't know how lucky we are

Post by Oscar » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:37 am

(Red BX 1.7TZD ("Well, it is a style icon" - Tom Sheppard)) "Was", Tom, "was"

M

Post by M » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:44 am

Image

I was after a Dyane too....

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:52 am

As often happens when I read stories like this, I feel I want to do something to help... as I have to a small degree in the past. But as we all know, that is only one story out of countless others.

It really does make you feel humble, realising how lucky we are.
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stuart_hedges
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Post by stuart_hedges » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:10 am

Things are weird in that part of the world at the moment. I mean, weirder than usual. We have three Serbian students in the school at the moment and they tell us that a couple of months ago the nation of "Serbia and Montenegro", named in the article, split up. They say that they are now from "Serbia" but they don't know if this new country is a republic, a monarchy or what.

I worry about these places... I've been to Poland and Hungary, where they're doing relatively well, but there are still a LOT of problems over there. It's on our doorstep and we should be helping.

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:44 pm

Always seems to be going on somewhere in the world, we really dont know we are born do we sometimes.
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Post by Kitch » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:17 pm

Its not nice, and I feel for them.

But I can't help wonder that these people don't make it easy for themselves.....they've got FOUR kids?? So you have no money, no quality of life and things are bad. You struggle to survive.

So you decide to have four kids, who will each in turn need looking after, feeding, time and attention.
And four is a low number, some of them have huge familys.
I can't see the logic myself.

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Post by DavidRutherford » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:25 pm

I doubt it's a conscious decision. "Family planning" isn't even the slightest of considerations for people in these circumstances.

Plus, I have no doubt that the infant/child mortality rate is very high indeed, so were they to only have 1 or 2 children, there's a good chance that neither of them will make it to adulthood.

As bad as I feel for people in this situation, I do wonder what I can actually do about it. Despite all the billions of pounds/dollars that flows around the world every year in aid, this situation still exists, and I'm fairly sure will exist forever, if not in Serbia, then somewhere else on the planet.
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Post by stuart_hedges » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:40 pm

I've got a feeling this topic may get out of hand so I'm going to make a final post then keep my big mouth shut!

We are a very rich nation which, generally speaking, knows how to run itself with decorum and a general minimum of famines, armed uprisings etc. I firmly believe that a nation like that owes a duty of care to its less fortunate neighbours.

We do give a lot of money in aid, and we do things like accepting refugees - this is all to the good. The problem is, aid money is often poorly allocated. Just sending food parcels is no good, except in the first few days/weeks after a major disaster.

In the situation in the article here, we should be investing and, better yet, encouraging companies to invest in the infrastructure of these places; building factories there, investing in education (especially sex education, as others have noted) and generally encouraging them to stand up for themselves rather than relying on foreign aid.

We cannot possibly comprehend what went on in Eastern Europe. I've got some friends from that part of the world so I can just about begin to understand... but they are our cousins and we should be lending them a helping hand to recover from Communism.

Just my two penn'orth! I'll shut up now!

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Post by jeremy » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:28 pm

This of course is exactly what the EEC is supposed to do. However it ends up that us, France and Germany pay for the rest including the east european countries - and for some reason the EEC provides grants for us as well which has always seemed to me to be plain interferance and innefficiency - and no doubt allows someone to take a rake off on the way.

Migration is not necessarily a good idea for anyone - as invariably its the brighter and better qualified or more motivated who go and those are really the people that you need to get your own country going. I'm sure that the sucess of the USA in the 20th century is largely due to this factor.

In fact we are beginning to see the revival of the Eastern Europe countries - Peugeot are opening their new 207 factory - and look where its taken the jobs from. they aren't the only ones - and we're going to have to work out what as a nation we're going to do about it. The theory is that if both sides have money they will trade but I can't see that Eastern Europe will want dodgy investments and insurance which is about all we seem capable of at the moment and we'll continue to buy their products until we can no-longer pay for them.

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Post by Terry Brooks » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:59 pm

This topic was discussed a while ago on "another forum" .....
Considering that these people are "of no fixed abode" .....and prob'ly a law unto themselves .......I wonder how the rightful owners of these Dyanes & 2CV's felt when their car was stolen [c'mon now :? y' gonna tell me they bought them legit?.] .......the Police of course are'nt really interested because by the time the car has been stripped of its body and identity it is totally untrace-able and resembles a peice of agricultural machinery anyway.
Thankfully it seems that the few Dyane/2CV owners who are left with their cars still untouched are now wised up to these people ....so they have now moved on to stealing more upmarket stuff.
If you still for sorry for these people,take a holiday ........drive down to Serbia in your BXTZD .........leave it where they can steal it,then catch the next plane home ['cos you sure aint gonna be driving home] .........and then tell me you feel sorry for 'em.
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Last edited by Terry Brooks on Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by cavmad » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:12 pm

stuart_hedges wrote:I've got a feeling this topic may get out of hand so I'm going to make a final post then keep my big mouth shut!

We are a very rich nation which, generally speaking, knows how to run itself with decorum and a general minimum of famines, armed uprisings etc. I firmly believe that a nation like that owes a duty of care to its less fortunate neighbours.

We do give a lot of money in aid, and we do things like accepting refugees - this is all to the good. The problem is, aid money is often poorly allocated. Just sending food parcels is no good, except in the first few days/weeks after a major disaster.

In the situation in the article here, we should be investing and, better yet, encouraging companies to invest in the infrastructure of these places; building factories there, investing in education (especially sex education, as others have noted) and generally encouraging them to stand up for themselves rather than relying on foreign aid.

We cannot possibly comprehend what went on in Eastern Europe. I've got some friends from that part of the world so I can just about begin to understand... but they are our cousins and we should be lending them a helping hand to recover from Communism.

Just my two penn'orth! I'll shut up now!

No need to `shut up` at all Stuart, I personally found that a very interesting (yet sad) post. It must be awful to live under those conditions and whilst I`m not particulary religious the expression `there but for the grace of God go I` springs to mind.
Any help that we can give must be a good thing and we do have a choice whether we want to personally donate or not. I certainly will, as has been said it makes you realise how lucky we are.
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:37 am

Nice one Terry. Made your mind up then. You must have had some bad first-hand experiences then, to confidently tar all of these folk with the same brush. (Maybe that's why so many Europeans think we are drunken louts...)

I'd be the first to defend 'freedom of speech' and to defend against the absurdities of extreme political-correctness... But: Let's keep this forum free of bigotry and racism as much as sensibly possible. Please.
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Post by Terry Brooks » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:14 am

Hi Philip .......I've edited my reply .....sorry if any offence was caused ....I was merely stating my opinion,but you're right,this forum is no place for bigotry or racism.
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Post by stuart_hedges » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:06 am

Cheers Cavmad. I hope I can interpret the word "help" in your post as education rather than just handouts - that's what needs to happen.

I'm not religious either but "there but for the grace of god..." is a phrase that we could ALL to well to remember in our daily lives. Whether we believe in god or not, it's a powerful message which can keep us all on the straight and narrow; thinking about other people before ourselves.

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Post by Kitch » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:40 pm

That phrase doesn't make sense? :shock: