The Citroën Classic Challenge archive

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Dollywobbler
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Post by Dollywobbler » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:47 pm

I think dropping the charity element is a good idea. I felt really bad trying to procure funds from people when I was off on a jolly.

Keeping the costs down is always good. Not sure I could afford a hotel-a-night next time around!

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mat_fenwick
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Post by mat_fenwick » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:09 pm

I know what you mean - I felt slightly guilty having fun (which it was) on a charity trip!
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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:27 am

See: http://www.bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13006

£20 a head. No worries about excuses. Charity will benefit from individual voluntary donations (but will not be recorded publicly) and from any profit made from the fees (unlikely though it may be).

But to all intents and purposes this in a Citroën JOLLY. Parteeeeeeeee lol
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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:15 am

Ok Phil, I hear ya. Can I just ask, what if I (and I mean hyperthetically I) was to just turn up at the meeting point wearing a smile and be socialable, have a laugh and drive the route without giving you the £20? What would the £20 buy me?

Just trying to get everything straight in me head!

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:45 am

£20. It buys me a meal. yum.


No, seriously, for that you get your route plan. You get lotsa nice stickers for your car. You get a certificate at the end of the event. And maybe even a t-shirt (or at least the offer to buy one at cost). One thing it will help cover is the group texting nextwork facility (Zygo) which proved extremely useful last year.

Where else will you get your holiday planned for £20 though?

If you want to come, great; you'll enjoy it (and you'll be very welcome!). If £20's too expensive then, meh... what can I say? :lol:
Kitch wrote:drive the route without giving you the £20?
Well, I'm not sure you'd be the most popular person amongst those who had paid :roll: :wink:
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Post by Defender110 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:19 am

Kitch wrote:was to just turn up at the meeting point wearing a smile and be socialable
[quote=''Philip Childlow'']And maybe even a t-shirt (or at least the offer to buy one at cost). One thing it will help cover is[/quote]

your modesty if you turn up wearing just a smile!!!! :wink:
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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:52 pm

Philip Chidlow wrote:£20. It buys me a meal. yum.


No, seriously, for that you get your route plan. You get lotsa nice stickers for your car. You get a certificate at the end of the event. And maybe even a t-shirt (or at least the offer to buy one at cost). One thing it will help cover is the group texting nextwork facility (Zygo) which proved extremely useful last year.

Where else will you get your holiday planned for £20 though?

If you want to come, great; you\'ll enjoy it (and you\'ll be very welcome!). If £20\'s too expensive then, meh... what can I say? :lol:
Kitch wrote:drive the route without giving you the £20?
Well, I\'m not sure you\'d be the most popular person amongst those who had paid :roll: :wink:
I don\'t pay to get my holiday planned, I go self-catering. ;)

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:06 pm

OK, I was joking really. I don't pay to have my holidays planned either! But I was sort of making a point. The BXagon PER PARTICIPANT fee was £20. Nobody complained. It paid for the stickers, plans, Zygo etc and in the end what was left over went to Cancer Research.
So enough already :lol:

Do I put you on the list or not? :roll: :wink:
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Post by Way2go » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:19 pm

Philip Chidlow wrote: No, seriously, for that you get your route plan. You get lotsa nice stickers for your car. You get a certificate at the end of the event. And maybe even a t-shirt (or at least the offer to buy one at cost). One thing it will help cover is the group texting nextwork facility (Zygo) which proved extremely useful last year.
Having read through the recent posts, I too am confused by the maths. :?

£20 a head x 2 people in a car x 30 teams = £1200 :shock: The above list seems to have little in the way of monetary value. Personally I wouldn't want stickers on my car to attract attention when parked, would rather it remained incognito which a BX in France should quite easily so that it doesn't stand out as a target for any local riff-raff.

I went on a foreign holiday this year planned by club member of another organisation I belong to. There were 20 of us and as a result there was a free place for the organiser. This free place wasn't taken advantage of though, the monetary value was distributed amonst all the particiopants to make all the holidays cheaper! That was the true spirit of organising a club event.

There are people who will follow blindly and those that will analyse and even question. For this reason for harmony amongst everyone it is best to let people see the costs and not enter into unnecessary expense on frivolous items. Surely such a jaunt is more for doing this in company not stickers and certificates. Sorry if this offends, its not intended to, but I like such things to be straightforward and hopefully they will be.
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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:57 pm

I can see this is becoming a real problem. So I feel I should explain.

First, Way2go, you are wrong.

Entry is £20 per team. NOT per participant. Fair do's?

That means lucky old me won't end the event sitting on a pile of money as maybe some seem to imagine my aim is to do.

First and foremost, I want there to be an entry fee. It encourages commitment and helps cover my costs for getting promotional material produced. I put my time and enthusiasm, my creativity and skills into this and do not expect recompense of course. Hence as I've said, I don't charge for admin

How much that entry fee wants to be is dictated by a number of factors. One, it needs to be sufficient to cover some costs:

I am offering each team stickers but my latest plan is to have fewer made than with the BXagon, bringing the price down to approx £9.00 plus VAT (£10.80).

The Certificate costs £1.70 plus P&P - allow £1.40 for envelope and stamps etc. (Post will be higher in 2012!)

Then the route plan will only be handed over to those participating and who have paid the entry fee.

I intend it to be a little information pack which will include all the gathered material relating to the route, the stop-over options (camp sites, hotels etc), the planned end-of-event bash (I will come back to that later) and so on, as well as a driver's guide for those unfamiliar with driving on the continent or as back up where any confusion might arise regarding the language in relation to car issues/emergencies). This I will need to print out and put in a folder. That will cost approximately £5.00- including ink overheads.

Then we have the Zygo account to establish. This system worked very well and I want to use it again. It worked out about £5.80 per team for two weeks in France. So I will do a pro rata of c. £3.85.

So the total has reached £22.75.

I'm not likely to make much of a profit.

If - as I'm sure many will want - I am to organise the production of t-shirts I will offer those - at cost - to teams members on a pre-order basis.

One could argue that this is all unnecessary. In particular the stickers issue: it brought a certain sense of occasion to the BXagon and nobody's car was broken into/stopped for having a few stickers plastered on it. We enjoyed the 'team spirit'. At the end of the day, (to use that hackneyed phrase, sorry!), if anyone doesn't like it - either don't come, or refrain from applying the stickers! I still have to (actually want to) get them produced.

What happens if I have money left over?

I will simply bung it into the kitty for the final bash.

Is this all a bit clearer now? Because I'd hate anyone to think I was doing this for money. I want to do a memorable event. If paying £20 entry fee sours it for anybody, I'm sorry. But it stays.
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kermit the frog
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Post by kermit the frog » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:03 pm

Can i just say that all the cars that did the BXAGON were stickered including Jaba Todd and Ann Marie squires
We had no trouble throughout the whole trip.
In fact we did get attention from french BX owners questioning our sanity for doing it.
Also an offer to look at a collection of BX'S in one frenchman's garden but it was all in good spirit's
We all had loads of stuff which for most of the time was in veiw.
And not one car was touched
The only trouble i have had with the stickers (which incidentally are mostly still on the Green Hornet)
Was when i went over to Calais just before last christmas to get some wine etc when some ENGLISH b*****d's broke into the Green hornet and stole my camera bag with all my photography stuff in it.
If you are not going to get involved and have the stickers etc then we might as well all do it at different times and go different ways and not see each other just as we do at the moment.
Those of us who go to the National do not go there with the intention of getting in without paying.
And have a great time this trip has the potential of having 5 or 6 nights of laughs and fun and seeing some fantastic scenery as a group.
This above is my own opinion and i am in no way telling anybody what to do but please think about what i have said.

Regards Kermit
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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:04 pm

Way2go wrote:That was the true spirit of organising a club event.
Having re-read your post again Way2go, I think that suggests the 'spirit' of this event is somehow not creditable. It is in my view. Why don't you choose to take part in this event and see how it works? It will be fun.

I won't bring it up again and really if you still have issue over the motives or structure of this event you e-mail me and we can hopefully allay your reservations.
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Way2go
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Post by Way2go » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:50 pm

Phil, it was you that said:
Philip Chidlow wrote: £20 a head. No worries about excuses.
Philip Chidlow wrote:
Way2go wrote:That was the true spirit of organising a club event.
Having re-read your post again Way2go, I think that suggests the 'spirit' of this event is somehow not creditable.
That's taking a quote totally out of context, in an unconnected case it relates to someone receiving a "perk" that was then shared out amongst all & appreciated. I cannot see where you can draw a parallel with "perks" applicable to you.
kermit the frog wrote: The only trouble i have had with the stickers (which incidentally are mostly still on the Green Hornet)
Was when i went over to Calais just before last christmas to get some wine etc when some ENGLISH b*****d's broke into the Green hornet and stole my camera bag with all my photography stuff in it.
I think that that just proves my point that you were disagreeing with in your longer post.

Phil C, I do not have to limit my posts to emails with you as I am entitled to have my say on the forum like everyone else! The matter is of general interest and there is no reason that I can see why posts should not be open and that includes the financial aspects of it. After all it is not "your event" but "our event" for those that ultimately choose to go.
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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:36 pm

How tiresome. Sorry I am far from perfect and sometimes my enthusiasm gets the better of me. I'm just trying to organise something that could conceivably turn out to be a bit of a gas...
Philip Chidlow wrote:I would be the first to acknowledge, this is a plan in the early stages. Prompted by three or four people's concerns - and debated here, I have decided to cut entry fee to £20 per team...
OK I made a slip up elsewhere, but I did reiterate at least once elsewhere too:
Philip Chidlow wrote:
HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?

Each team is self-funded. I will require £20 from each team to cover costs.
Importantly I have stated the case regarding the financial aspect. I would be happy for someone else to handle the entry fee 'account' if it would make everyone feel happy, so long as my costs are covered, That's all I ask.

In the interests of this event I will happily answer posts you make, I just wondered if everyone else wanted to read these exchanges... but fair enough.

I stand by the view that, if you have a problem, don't do it. I don't understand why you have to assume the role of 'protector of participant's interests' or whatever... BUT I would far, far prefer it if you acknowledged the fact this is non-profit, nothing goes to charity, (but no-one should expect me to shoulder the cost), fun event for lovers of Citroen cars - oh and some exciting drives! AND TAKE PART.
:D
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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:20 pm

Just for the record Phil, I\'m not suggesting you\'re out to profit in any of this. Far from it in fact, I can appreciate the effort and hard work you\'re planning to put into it.

My point really, is that with stickers, certificates, planners, wi-fi or whatever it is, t-shirts??? Ok maybe offer some window stickers for the memory of the trip, but I just think the rest is a bit overkill, and all the organisation kinda removes the mucking about having a laugh aspect that would otherwise appeal to me. If I\'m honest, offspring aside that was a reason I chose not to do the BXagon....it was all way too official.

Yes, CCC charge you to get into their \'rallies\' (to be frank, they should find somewhere free and no charge people, because paying to get into those non-events is painful, but thats another story!), but they\'re an official organisation, not a bunch of guys who chat frequently on a forum in an unoffical and social manner.

Last month I drove to Blackpool for an event put on by the TVR Car Club. I\'m not a member, I don\'t have a big house, lots of money and like paying ££££\'s to have a bulb changed at a \"specialist\" and I don\'t go to parties where you leave your keys in a bowl. But basically, they\'d booked the North Promenade (the council let them have it F.O.C) and put alot of effort into organising the \"Bring It Home\" show. Entry was free and 350 or so cars showed up over the weekend, there were factory tours (of what\'s left of it) which were free, there were three drives/blats out in the country, one of which was 83miles long - no maps just a description of where you need to be at what time found online and the only thing you had to pay to do was either the rolling road £40, but £5 of it went to charity) or the 1/4 sprint along the Promenade (cheaper, but a racing licence needed).
Not alot of relevance overall, but if they managed to do that for free (i.e not actually needing all the gumph you\'re suggesting is needed to make it more fun) then why do we need it all for a road trip round France? I\'m not knocking what you\'re doing, fair play for actually bothering to try and organise something....lets face it as far as Citroens go there\'s sweet FA pretty much anually!

My only suggestion would be that you offer the map, the certificates (if people want to enter whatever it is that gets one), the t-shirts and stickers etc to people who want them. I gurantee more people won\'t buy the lot than will. I\'d probably order a sticker myself, but thats not a given as I don\'t like stickers in my windows :P
By holding people down to the £20 fee, I think alot of people will be paying for things they don\'t really want. A map costs nothing to knock together on multi-map and everyone has a sat-nav these days don\'t they?
If people pull out, they pull out. I imagine you\'re concerned about numbers for the event after the last one, but £20 isn\'t going to hold people to something which will probably cost around £800.

Make all the stuff you\'re planning to produce optional (it\'s a risk, you may end up out of pocket so it\'d be worth getting people\'s cash upfront I would imagine) and just open it to which ever Citroen cars you want.

Personally, and it\'s no reflection on anyone at all (truthfully) but as it stands I won\'t be participating because I don\'t think it sounds like the sort of thing I\'d normally enjoy. The only part I\'d like would be the driving on French back roads and perhaps some car museums. My g/f wants to go to France with the boys in the BX anyway, and as it is I don\'t think it\'s got more than one trip in it at the moment!

Hope it works out for you guys though, genuinely.

Cheers