The Citroën Classic Challenge archive

[Philip Chidlow]

You drove to Blackpool. Wow.

Is all this just belly-aching about paying just £20 in over a year's time? Really? Is that all?

I have explained what it covers (which is not unreasonable for what it is) and if you don't want to put stickers on your car, sell 'em or whatever. If you don't want to know where we are going, that makes it pretty pointless, and if you want to tag along for the buzz, then it's up to everyone else how you are viewed, but I think it'd be pretty cynical. If you want to not be a part of it at all, then by all means feel free to stay at home.

Not everyone sees it the way you do. I am not over-organising. All I'm doing is trying to work up a route that has a combination of favourable factors, in a foreign country, involving this time, people I don't know outside the BX Club.. A route cannot be thought up 'just like that', it has to take into account a lot of things. Not least where the teams end up of a night.

You didn't participate in the BXagon and you lost out. It was great fun.

Someone somewhere has to decide on a route. To state when and where this is happening, otherwise we might as well say:

Road Trip for Citroens 2012. All comers welcome.

No route, no set time, no stickers. For fuck's sake what do YOU suggest we do?

I'm sorry you won't be taking part.

[kermit the frog]

Hi Way2go
I agree with your statment about being vulnerable to the riff raf

But if you read the other part where we were on the road for 10 days all over france and nothing happened to any of the cars that did the run.

I was told by my insurance company when i reported the break in that British not French Gang's target British cars in the carparks in Calais at christmas time.

And as my car is an estate and by getting into the front they had easy access to the boot where my camera was they would not pay

So my car was damaged by my own countymen and my english insurers
would not pay out.
All this was not done by anybody from France.

I would like to put my full support behind what Phil Chidlow is doing and if there is any way i can help he only has to ask.
I hope there are more people out there with any type of Citroen who feel the same

Regards Kermit

[Tim Leech]

Ive not said anything regarding this event so far except that I will be attending for sure in a BX of some sort, yes this is a very relaxed forum based club but someone has to take some charge or it will be a complete disaster, and yes something to denote what we are doing i.e stickers and t shirts sounds a good idea, if you don't want a t-shirt then dont, ALOT of other car clubs do the same when they have there jollies and normally its a hoot, ive been on quite a few with the SD1 and GCCG and it was memorable and brought people closer together.

Stop being so cynical chaps, if you want to come along great, more the merrier, if not or you cant then at least lets get behind it, £20 doesn't buy much nowadays.

[Mike E (uk)]

I agree with you Tim.

Personally, I would have set the entry 'fee' much higher.

My daughters school trip deposits are £50, non returnable- for a £300 trip.

This is normal. And no stickers either.

The BXagon was not 'too organised' I did it, so I know.

We made changes to the route as we went, and some did their own thing.

I am disappointed at how tight some members are, and their dog in a manger attitude to an event they have no intention of entering anyway.

Stop hassling now, lets discuss something else.

Mike

[Way2go]

But if you read the other part where we were on the road for 10 days all over france and nothing happened to any of the cars that did the run.

I am genuinely glad about this but the risk was undoubtedly elevated by attracting attention to the cars and if the wrong types were present at the right time, well, the outcome could have been different.

I was told by my insurance company when i reported the break in that British not French Gang's target British cars in the carparks in Calais at christmas time.

So my car was damaged by my own countymen

All this was not done by anybody from France.

Did they catch the offenders Kermit? Otherwise this is basically conjecture and you cannot say with any certainty that non-french residents were the perpetrators. In any case a theft is a theft and you have lost your posessions regardless. Conversely I was told by my Insurance company years ago that the French contents thieves target cars with British numberplates, as on holiday they are more likely to be carrying items of value. They have to get close to read the numberplates but the stickers advertise the car from a much greater distance!

I would like to put my full support behind what Phil Chidlow is doing and if there is any way i can help he only has to ask.

Regards Kermit

Of this, I have no doubt Kermit and I too support Phil in what he is endeavouring to set up. However I do not believe in unquestioning support especially where there are issues to understand.
No one, but no one should deter any of us from asking questions and putting our 4 pennorth in reply and nor should they.

[Tim Leech]

way2go are you going on this trip?

[Mike E (uk)]

I agree there is a risk in taking a UK car abroad, you are obviously a tourist, and likely carring valuables.

But on the BXagon we rarely left the cars during the day-and it is tricky breaking into a moving car. At night, I removed the valuables,and some of the car parks were secure.

Kermit was just unlucky; I have never lost anything in many trips to France.

Mike (firmly grasping the wooden table)

[docchevron]

hmmm, this is all very interesting reading for me.
There were a few reasons I didn't do BXagon 1.
One was health, or lack of at that time, actually it's not much different now, but I'm a tad more stable / less worried so thats not an issue now really.
Two, was getting the time off work. Which silly as it sounds is not an easy task when holidays are set in stone over a year beforehand.
Three was the charidee aspect. I'm not sating charity isn't important, it is, although personally all my charity cash goes on animal related things since prefer animals to people.
As was said earlier in this thread though, it kinda felt a bit worng to me to be, I dunno, feel like I was having a jolly whilst raising money for charity. Like, it was an excuse or something if that makes sense?
Four, was the organised aspect of it.
The more I read on here the more it felt regimented. Thats not to say planning / someone to take charge and actually make it happen isn't required, but, erm, like, on forum it felt very controlled and restricted.

Ok, so you all went, had a good time and made money for charity, so it worked out great, and in retrospect actually I wish I'd gone.
Another part of me is glad I didn't since I would probably have embarrased the other participants by getting pissed everynight and being rude to cheese eating surrender monkies.

This time round though, with the charity aspect removed, suddenly it seems more "me".
Like, great, I could go for a drive, have a few (if you can find actual beer in France these days?) and have a laugh without feeling guilty that I'm making it look bad for people raising monwy for a good cause.
£20 is sod all these days so thats not really an issue, BUT, I do find myself re-reading Kitch's comments and thinking, hmm, ya know, some of the best times of my life have been totally spontanious things.
Ok, yes, things like this cant be totally spontanious, but erm, thats kinda where I am in my head right now.
Not a critism at anyone, or this in general, just how I see things really.

[mat_fenwick]

Another part of me is glad I didn't since I would probably have embarrased the other participants by getting pissed everynight

Yeah, I would have been extremely embarrassed by you if you had got ...
On balance I think I'd prefer a more 'low key' approach in terms of stickers etc - but others may want to go the whole hog and do something daft like covering their car in stripes, each to their own! I wasn't unduly worried about security TBH, but then I suppose I only spent 4 nights not in the car!
The more this is discussed, the more appealing this is sounding to me. Should be a good trip, and spontaneity can happen even on a well planned trip (I'm thinking back to the bar/restaurant on the first night!)

[docchevron]

I'm not saying spontanaity wouldn't happen, it's just my perception that the more things are talked about, the more rigid it becomes.
Like, say, my version would go:
Right lads, end of May,. lets piss off to France, get , shag some locals (sheep or otherwise), do a bit of driving, eat some good food, come back early June?
Whose in?

and then, just, go.

Ok, I know that can't work in this realm of context, but, on BXP, or in work, or up the farm, thats what would happen and it would work, and be an adventure since no-one would really know what the fuck was going on!

See, that, for me, is perfection.
Thats not to say it is for anyone else which iis why I was keen to say it was just my feelings on the subject.
But for me, and probably me alone, if Phil said, "right lads, end of May, France, beer, women, driving, lets go" I'd be there with bells on, and some viagra from Tesco's, just in case..

[kermit the frog]

I am with Matt on the spontanious bit i think every day on the Bxagon something happened that was not in the original plan.

Plus we all knew where the next night stop was going to be but most made their way there by very different routes.

I was organised but not to military standards.

I can remember when we were driving round Monaco and went down to the tunnel via the famous hairpin Matt turned left and was on his way to Italy while Mike E and Phil and I were driving through the Tunnel.

Luckily all three cars had CB so we soon got Matt back on the right road.
Now if you call that organisation then WELL!!!!!! .

Regards Kermit

[mat_fenwick]

I'm not saying spontanaity wouldn't happen, it's just my perception that the more things are talked about, the more rigid it becomes.

But in this case, what I was meaning is that it seems to becoming more flexible the more it is discussed. I'm with you on the spontaneity thing though - in an ideal world I'd just be able to bugger off on my own for a few days if I felt like it. With this one I could do that sort of thing on the way down, and then do the event proper on the way back up.

[Dollywobbler]

I'm absolutely baffled by this thread. Seems to be a lot of people whinging about it being too organised. ! Are we meant to just make it up as we go along? It doesn't work like that. Phil is organising an event - if you don't like it, don't come but FFS don't whinge about something you don't want to take part in!

BXagon was great for many reasons. It didn't feel too regimented at all. In fact, we even ignored the route book and took our own routes to the final destinations and mainly avoided travelling with anyone else during the day - more fun to have your individual adventures and then share your tales in the bar of an evening.

Security didn't even cross my mind. We ended up in some pretty shift areas and nowt happened to the cars. I never leave valuables in the car anyway - the laptop and camera kit were never left unattended in the car. The stickers just added a sense of cameraderie.

As for the £20 entry fee - I don't have a problem with this AT ALL. Sure, some classic events are free, but a large number of classic car tours (which this sort of is) charge hundreds if not thousands of pounds.

I think some people need to think twice before posting to be honest. Why complain about something you're not even interested in?

[Philip Chidlow]

I get a feeling of de ja vu here, as quite a lot of this was covered in talking about the BXagon.

It does make for an interesting debate, and that's for sure.

I don't believe that, in planning, you will remove the fun aspect. So long as it isn't regimented.

I believe the removal of the charity aspect has made it more appealing to many.

The idea of concentrating upon this being a mountain-focussed event is going to go down well and will make it extremely memorable.

The issue of stickers is largely a red herring, some will want them, some won't but as some might choose on the day I still have to get them done. So for the sake of no more than a tenner a team (would be less but for 20% VAT by then!) I will do them. I will - in view of the cost and the 'visibility' aspect - restrict it to some more subtle badging with more of a souvenir quality. This might bring the price down; leaving more to put in the 'kitty'.

No-one, least of all me, expects unquestioning participation. I have tried to address concerns and adapted to them as appropriate. When I settle upon the final form, it will have been because of the debate and input from you lot and others outside the BX Club. I am not doing this to satisfy my ego, but in reality I started this and I am ultimately the one who has to be the arbiter (well someone does) as we all know design by committee doesn't work.

So what will be planned?

Car: To participate in this event each team must do it in a Citroen.

The route: This will be for guidance only: all it is there for is a) that for those wishing to travel in loose packs can do so with a reasonable assurance that their mates will be on the same road some of the time. b) We all know where to start and finish each day if we want to meet to 'catch up' and have a laugh/drink/meal/BBQ whatever. c) It's also handy so we know how far the event requires us to drive, and it allows teams to plan (sorry lol!) diversions as they please. and still be able to join the route later where they stand a chance of meeting fellow teams again.

I will not make this route plan available to anyone other than teams although it won't take much to deduce from what has been examined so far, to make it up with a fair chance of being right for many of the stretches. But hey.

Comms: Each team will be linked to the Zygo multi-messaging service. CB radios are recommended but not mandatory.

Stop-overs: A list of recommended overnight campsites/hotels will be supplied. Again purely for guidance.

Dates: It seems obvious we need to do this together at the same time. So the dates have to be fixed. What has happened is that in accommodating some people's wishes there is an initial start point (for those wanting to do the circuit) and a secondary start point down south, giving the option to meander down at a more leisurely pace or bomb down in one go.

This secondary point; close to Gap, will be the location of an envisaged (I didn't use the word planned - ) rally in conjunction with a French Citroen/classic car club (TBC) and/or a local tour (the landscape around there is stunning) in convoy etc. for those wishing to take part. (The campsite I have looked at is a nice one too with lots of facilities).
If anything this is the one day I could be accused of any significant planning, but it is optional.

End-of-event bash - Calais: This will be in the form of a set-price meal with a room set-aside for a big 'pub-quiz' if at all possible. Again no-one has to attend.

And that's it. I don't think it's too organised, but there is enough there to satisfy the less anarchic (which will probably be the majority in the Citroen Car Club et al) and yet is not simply a "let's leave Calais sometime on the 9th of May and meet back here on the 16th May - see ya!" thing (Only kidding )

[rayfenwick]

...being rude to cheese eating surrender monkies.

Do you by chance listen to the PPP?

Aah know aah do!