The Citroën Classic Challenge archive

Here members post meetings, events, meet ups and the like
User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11570
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 15

Post by Philip Chidlow » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:24 pm

Just because I'm organising a 'BXagon II' in France doesn't mean others can't organise something in the UK. Scotland was an idea a while back. So was Wales, but in the end, I like France as do so many others in the French car fraternity.

I would really welcome someone organising a 'domestic' event (but in 2012 the ICCCR is a biggie anyway). I also think (although nobody can be too certain these days) the weather will be better (generally) the further south you go.

In addition there's the opportunity to raid French breakers, to come across Citroen-related 'finds', enjoy some different food and, well spend some time in the home of Citroen cars. In my mind it has always been more than a car.

Let's examine the level of expense aspect:

Fuel here is about on a par with France.

The Euro exchange rate is a pain but it is still easy enough to eat cheaply and well there. As here.

Accommodation: It'll cost wherever you are. And camping in France might prove a little more comfortable/warm/dry? I acknowledge the sites may cost a tad more over there.

Crossing. If you use the tunnel, and use Tesco vouchers, the cost is minimal.

An additional cost that needs to be taken into account is Travel insurance (cheap now) and Europoean recovery and repatriation cover (allow £85 for a week). That's where the UK comes out top of course.

Distance to travel, I thought about this: Birmingham (for the sake of argument) to Oban (for example again!) is c.400 miles. Allowing for driving up and around the Highlands, allow, say another 500 miles. Then back again. Total approx 1,300 miles. That means it's entirely likely that well over half of the mileage a team covers in total is to actually get to and from the circuit.

Taken another way, Birmingham (for example, again) to Dover is 200 miles or so. If we clock up 1,250 miles in France, that gives a total of 1,550 miles. Not a lot in it really.

So all in all, (without meaning to sound dismissive, honestly!) I am not really interested in doing a UK event, I like the Continental aspect. Having said that France is not the be-all and end-all, I am planning to include incursions to Switzerland, for example.

BUT please - get organising if you want to do a UK tour - you'll have a lot of interest. (And probably more teams!)...
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11570
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 15

Post by Philip Chidlow » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:24 pm

So, on to an idea for the route. Many have expressed an urge to visit somewhere a bit mountainous. Of course the options are limited given our time/distance constraints, but the Jura Mountains seem a good bet...

Citroen Challenge 2012. Option 1

Draft route: Map at the ready…

Start point Calais.
Day ONE
Calais to Nancy via Cambrai and Verdun. This takes the cars through some lovely countryside as well as allowing a 'themed' WW1 quiz trail for instance. Avesnes-sur-Helpe, possibly, for lunch/picnic. 325 miles.

Day TWO
Nancy to Solothurn, Switzerland via Mulhouse (lots of options for visits around here, plus a rather good breakers yard near there) and up into the Jura Mountain region. 200 miles.

Day THREE
Solothurn to Villefranche-s-Saône via Neuchâtel (Hilly bits and lakes). 205 miles.

Day FOUR (Option A)
This is if we have been able to arrange a rendezvous with a French club at Nevers/Lurcy-Levis/Magny-Cours.
Villefranche-s-Saône to Nevers a short-ish run to ensure we get a reasonable amount of time at the destination. 135 miles.

OR

Day FOUR (Option B)
Villefranche-s-Saône to Nevers via Vichy and Montluçon (lots of opportunity for navigation riddles/quiz). 220 miles.

Day FIVE
Nevers to Epernay via Auxerre (possibly). An evening meet and event (tasting?) in the heart of Champagne country. 190 miles.

Day SIX
Epernay to Calais via Eperleques/St. Omer (possibly). 215 miles.

Total mileage: 1,270 to 1,355

IMPORTANT: If the basic IDEA of the above meets with general approval and I get the impression that we will get some teams participating, I will look into camping and other accommodation options. It could be that we need to substantially shift a way-point or two to allow for camping over, but I need to start somewhere.

OK, that's the first. I like it because it includes - at a scrape - some impressive mountain scenery, a big lake, some historical landmarks and the odd automotive attraction, as well as the opportunity for a central France get-together with a domestic Club. There's a pretty good variety of scenery and cultural regions and a reasonable variety in roads, although with the first stage we need to acknowledge that in order to thrust deep into the territory, we must make use of a motorway or two.

Anyway. Thoughts?

Phil
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

User avatar
Way2go
Over 2k
Posts: 7279
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:15 pm
Location: RCoBerkshire
x 2

Post by Way2go » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:03 pm

Philip Chidlow wrote: That means on day five, from Tulle we get as far as Valençay, possibly. Then by the end of day six somewhere around Evreaux/Bernay. (Then it's either Dieppe or Amiens (both interesting places) before the final day off to Calais). Clearly we've run out of 'days', however.

Phil
:? Not really! :wink: You can take the Dieppe Ferry to Newhaven. For many Newhaven will make a shorter return journey too so you will have saved significant fuel costs both sides.
1991 BX19GTi Auto

scarecrow

Post by scarecrow » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:11 pm

I didn't know there was still a ferry from Newhaven! Was it just the catameringue service that shut down a few years back?

User avatar
Way2go
Over 2k
Posts: 7279
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:15 pm
Location: RCoBerkshire
x 2

Post by Way2go » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:23 pm

I think you are thinking of the Seacat service from Brighton?

Newhaven-Dieppe has always been a good route as it's also a shorter driving distance to Paris. :wink:

Here's the Website: http://www.transmancheferries.co.uk/
1991 BX19GTi Auto

User avatar
kermit the frog
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 673
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:36 am
Location: WORTHING WEST SUSSEX

Post by kermit the frog » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:19 pm

Hi
Having just read through all the posting's on this subject and being a participant in BXAGON 1.
I must say that the prospect of a sequal to the big B is very very appealing.
Especially as having undergone an angiogram today and found out that there is absolutely nothing amiss with the old ticker. :D
I am well and truly interested in another great adventure into the motherland of Citroen.
Bring on the mountains.
But just a cautionary note don't buy yoplait yoghurt at low altitude and open it at high altitude (very messy)
I think from a purely selfish point of view limiting the number of participants would be a good idea.
Also the inclusion of any Citroen to do this in will be great.
Can i just remind those who did BXAGON 1 of the fantastic impromptue evening we had in Saverne with Todd and the great welcome we recieved in that little sports bar WOW!!!!!!!!!!.
For those who didn't do the BXAGON 1 for Todd to pick up a guitar and start performing the most amasing routine which got everyone in the building involved was just a fantastic unplanned jewel of a moment.
Many thanks Todd for that.
Keep up the good work Phil
Count me in.
Is this the resurection of the Phillibusters.

Regards Kermit
ALAN S an oracle of knowledge sadly missed by us all RIP Mate
Green Hornet well I don't really know.GS project gone to pastures new
Blue Streak 1996(P) XANTIA VSX TD (130K.)

User avatar
toddao
BXpat
Posts: 2833
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:01 pm
Location: The Hegau

Post by toddao » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:20 pm

Phil, don't complain too much about the € - it's bloody weak against the pound from my perspective! :cry:

Mulhouse suits me - 90 mins from here and there's more than one scrappy in the area.

Edit: I just read your post Phil Kermit ( we posted at the same time). Thanks for the spect - it was a magic moment. I'd love to do it again! Glad the ticker is tocking correctly! :D
Todd


this yellow writing is really hard to read

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11570
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 15

Post by Philip Chidlow » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:03 pm

Who am I to say teams shouldn't take Newhaven - Dieppe or whatever crossing they like. But given that the start point has got to be the same for everyone, it makes sense to start the event at the point where the majority will be able to take advantage of the Tesco voucher scheme. It really does make a difference. I don't know how much a May- June crossing costs to Dieppe, but the savings in fuel etc would have to factor that in.

I'm not going to waste too much of anyone's time in debating certain aspects of the event. It's going to be hard enough. I'll organise it, taking notice and genuinely considering and adapting plans to suit serious potential participant's concerns.

I have to take issue with the idea that somehow having Dieppe as a start finish point will substantially alter the fact that a trip down to Millau (and some may suggest it'd go a little further on) might be unrealistic for a relatively short event. If you look at it again, it still means we'd realistically need 7 days.

Anyway, it's not going to happen so it's largely academic. But having said that if someone else fancies arranging a Millau bridge raid for the long-legged mile-hungry Citro-fans then great. :lol: 8)

I'd like to add that the general intention to stick to around 200 miles per day - acknowledging that we will need to do well over that on the first day - is quite an important planning 'aid'. Along with a limit of 6 days it will make this an event different in character to the first BXagon - and also to many other 'Road Trips' you read about.
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

User avatar
Mike E (uk)
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:10 am
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks

Post by Mike E (uk) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:14 am

My 2p worth:

I would prefer 2011 to 2012- can't wait that long.

Definately need mountains.

A Summer trip is best for camping and cost reduction, but best to avoid school holiday times. Longer days too.

A 7 day trip, long start and finish drives, shorter for the other five, so we have time to stop and visit more places.

Limit to any Citroen which is as old or older than an xm.

Motorways should be used when required, so we get to the most interesting places quicker.

Mike
la BX 16 soupapes: sachez apprecier avec moderation.



It might be clever now, but it won't be in the morning!

messerschmitt owner
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 466
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:02 pm
Location: Gloucester

Post by messerschmitt owner » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:02 am

I agree with the age limit but do remember that the XM's last sales were in 2001.
Citroen XM 2.1TD SX hatchback
Citroen XM 2.1TD VSX estate
Smart Roadster
Fiat Punto Cabriolet
Messerschmitt Kr200
Bond minicar mk C
Fiat 126 Bis
BX-less at the moment!

artic-steel
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:11 pm
Location: Wrexham, North Wales

Post by artic-steel » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:33 am

Well no one seems to want my GT so i best put her to good use, count me in.
Not read all the posts yet but agree with Mike, it has to have high mountains, the Alps would be great even if it meant 2 long, hard motorway days then maybe a rest day in somewhere like Albertville, i loved that place, the evening in that restaurant was one of the many great memories of the BXagon.
1984 - Citroen BX 19GT
1999 - Volvo S40 1.8
1999 - Kawasaki ZX6R J1
1986 - Kawasaki GPZ900R A3
1985 - Kawasaki GPZ900R A2

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11570
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 15

Post by Philip Chidlow » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:08 am

Hi chaps! First, the Alps were great, and I agree that mountains should if possible form part of the trip, but even in 7 days (I still think we should stick to a maximum of 6 for reasons I can explain later), it is a tall order, and then it becomes a simple drive to the Alps and back again with little opportunity for other interesting diversions. For example: Reaching Albertville in two days is possible but turns the first two days of the event into a motorway grind. Which isn't everyone's idea of a good way to spend at least 30% of the event doing... And if we are trying to encourage everything from DS's to Visas to Bxs etc. this could be punishing on the drivers and cars.

Which is why, rather than try to copy the BXagon 2009, I thought I'd suggest climbing up into the Jura Mountains, which have an appeal of their own.

Sadly and for a number of reasons which I will enter into next post, I don't think early summer 2011 is practical. Certainly I can't do that time (so consequently would be wasting my time planning it lol!) and next year generally is hard.

Got to dash, but will continue this thread later.
PS Andy, great: the GT should remain yours!
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

User avatar
rayfenwick
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1718
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:16 am
Location: Kingston upon Hull

Post by rayfenwick » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:31 am

kermit the frog wrote:...having undergone an angiogram today and found out that there is absolutely nothing amiss with the old ticker. :D
Excellent news, but now you'll have to change your signature :P
Ray

The Fleet (most recent first):
2000 Citroën XM 3.0 24V V6 Exclusive Auto (pre-MOT)
1997 Citroën XM 2.0 TCT Exclusive Auto (for sale)
1979 Citroën CX 2.4 EI Cmatic Prestige (slowly being restored)

1992 Alfa Romeo 164 Lusso 3.0 v6 12v Manual (on the to-do list)

www.citroencarclub.co.uk

messerschmitt owner
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 466
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:02 pm
Location: Gloucester

Post by messerschmitt owner » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:52 am

Phil

I think that’s a great route and it was very similar to one we had thought of for this year’s French holiday. I understand the mountain aspect, but also the time constraints for many of us. I am keen to go and help and this route has the best of both worlds. I do have a French campsite book at home so can start checking possible campsites en route. That will be the real determiner of daily start/stop points. 200 miles a day is as much as we want to do – that’s still a four hour drive with no stops - and in real terms on D routes will be five-six hours. While our cars are capable of long distances comfortably, a holiday where all one does is drive, eat and sleep is a bit naff. I would have thought we all want some time to relax, to see a sight or two, to have time to pitch a tent in late afternoon, before dinner, and not at nine o’clock in the dark. Pitching a tent takes 20 mins a night, and I’d rather have the luxury of doing it at a sensible time and that precludes too much driving.

I’d also have thought that for those of us who are likely to imbibe a little of the local liquor, that having to start at the crack of dawn will not give time for us to recover from the night before and I, for one, would like the luxury of being able to have a drink without having to start driving while still close to the drink drive limit.

What I’m saying is 200 miles a day is realistic, it gives time to see the scenery, time to do some shopping (for we have to eat), time to see some sights and time for a good chat. Using the motorhome for exactly this type of driving holiday has given me a feel for what is right. France is a beautiful country, much like the UK, with great contrasts in landscape and roads and it is easy to get carried away by wanting to keep on driving. Driving huge distances is tiring, you get no opportunity to see anything apart from the road itself. That’s no fun.

Am I being too miserable, I hope not – I’m just basing my observations on doing similar holidays and similar trips on an almost weekly basis. A smidgin over 200 miles a day is manageable and gives time to see some of the real France. Any more is just a rather long drive in a foreign country with very short stops and evenings when all one will want to do is pitch tent and go to bed.

Putting it into context, here are some 200 mile journeys (give or take).

Gloucester – Preston
Stirling to Morecambe
Bristol to Harwich
Birmingham to Dover
Exeter to Birmingham
Glasgow to Dingwall
Edinburgh to Sheffield
Belfast to Cork

Campbell
Citroen XM 2.1TD SX hatchback
Citroen XM 2.1TD VSX estate
Smart Roadster
Fiat Punto Cabriolet
Messerschmitt Kr200
Bond minicar mk C
Fiat 126 Bis
BX-less at the moment!

User avatar
Wooscary
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:48 am
Location: Hulme, Manchester

Post by Wooscary » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:35 am

I've no idea if I can come along, but it sounds fantastic.

The girlfriend and I and two friends drove to Oslo last year. We got there in three nights driving 300-450 miles a day. That was no fun (Must have been due to it not being in a Citroën!).

200 miles a day sounds good.