The QMG Citroën Classic Challenge 2012

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:15 pm

Excellent. Can you please PM me with your e-mail address and I can send you the paperwork, including the latest route plan.

(Forgive me if I have already sent this to you and I have not noticed your name on the mailing list!!!

)

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:18 pm

I have been forgiven lol!

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:41 pm

And for all you drivers (and not just Xantia Activa ones

) here's something to remind you of the sort of place we'll be visiting on the Challenge... So c'mon, get your entries in!

This is the Col d'Izoard. 31 kms of suspension work out.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:05 pm

A lot of people have been asking "How much will it cost me?"

Well, £20 per team plus.... (sit down...

Exchange rate note.
In most cases we will be using Euros obtained at 'Tourist rate' or at least the equivalent if using cards (once commission/admin charges are considered).

As of 12th september 2011 the rate is about €1.12 to the GBP.

Note: E&OE

Fuel prices and budget.
Unleaded is about the same in France as it is in the UK, as of the above date that's c.€1.53 or £1.36 per litre, or £6.18 per gallon). So really it doesn't matter if you fill up before crossing or not.

Diesel on the other hand is the equivalent of £1.29 a litre/£5.86 a gallon so 60 litres/13.2 gallons of that will be £6.60 less than in the UK. Not a lot, but it's a lunch…

In Switzerland (Swiss Francs: 1.353 to the GBP), the price of unleaded is the equivalent of £1.27 whereas diesel is £1.35.

For ease of calculation, I suggest we assume that unleaded is the same price as whatever it happens to be at the time in the UK and diesel is around 8% cheaper than here. It might not be necessary to touch the pumps in Switzerland but to all intents and purposes only petrol users will benefit - but only by a few quid.

Fuel costs will be a big cost for most teams. Diesel-users will find it less of a burden of course, but even for petrol-users the news isn't as bad as it might initially seem. Many of us use our cars on a daily basis so before you work out what it'll cost for the Challenge, work out how much fuel you'd be using if you didn't take part and deduct that from your figure.

For example. In the Philibuster's case driving to the crossing point and back in the UK is about 200 miles all in. Then as much as 1,800 miles Calais to Calais round trip (including the optional 'jaunt' on the Saturday) - so for us the Challenge will be say 2,000 miles . Phil and I between us probably drive a modest average of 400 miles the time we will be spending away. So that comes off the 'cost' figure, see Summary.

So, if you do a quick calculation the fuel cost will look something like this: (Again Philibuster's example - in a 1.9 diesel BX)

Filling up mainly in France, but obviously allowing for a UK bit of filling, the fuel for the Challenge will cost approx. £270.

If on the other hand I took my petrol Xantia I work out it'd cost us maybe £410. So from an economy point-of-view, diesel is clearly a better bet unless you have a 1.4 petrol doing better than 40 mpg

OK, moving on…

Crossing the Channel.
By using Tesco vouchers we can cross via Eurotunnel for 'free'. By booking early it is possible to get across - Dover to Calais return for around £70 (SeaFrance).

Accommodation costs.
This is the potentially priciest element of the Challenge. (But by using campsites, costs will be less than the BXagon's). NB: Our team will share a single pitch at the campsites but allow ourselves the luxury of our own rooms at any hotel stays*.
*It is possible to save massively on the following - it's all a matter of what each team decides their level of comfort needs to be.

As organisers we will travel over on the 8th May, stay in the Hotel (2 rooms at €41/£36.60 per room) followed by 9th-12th May camping at €16/£14.30 (average) per night. Then it's another night in a hotel (update: location TBC - current choice is full) - (2 rooms at €60-70/£53.50-£64). Then it's one night camping (€16/£14.30) and then final hotel at Epinal (2 rooms at @€c.70/£64 ea.). On the way back we'll stop at Calais (that's another 2 rooms at €41/£36.60 per room) before crossing on the 17th.

So the two of us will be paying around £460 (£230 each) for our nine nights accommodation; that's only about £25 per night, and given we get four nights to ourselves with TV, shower etc. it's certainly not roughing it.

Sustenance.
This is tricky, and it certainly depends if you choose to 'picnic' during the day and have just one 'meal' per day, how much booze is included and whether high dining is something your team wants to add to the experience (and why not!?). So as far as we're concerned we will set a budget of €20/£17.80 for each of us per day - plus, bear in mind the end-of-event bash will add to this and I think an extra €28/£25 would be a good idea.

So that's c.€210/£190 each for everything (team total €410/£380)… that's not too bad but it's still quite a wedge. But remember: the same applies to sustenance as to fuel: calculate how much each team member may have spent on sustenance in the days away and take that off, giving the cost of the Challenge element. As far as I can tell, this means it will only cost the team about £90 per head extra in that time.

Extras.
Obviously money will be spent on making the car a viable proposition, but that's entirely up to the teams/owners and has benefits outside just the Challenge so teams will need to decide how that cost is factored in.

Insurance: Taking out extra foreign travel/recovery and repatriation insurance (such as AA European cover) is probably a good idea - we will take it out. And the cost will be around £90-120 depending upon the level of cover. Adding half as much again with the AA will get you £500 parts and labour insurance. We're still undecided about that.

Travel insurance. Get it - it's not worth the risk in not having it.

Swiss motoring 'Vignette'. Buy beforehand online for about €35/32.

And that's it (but you know it won't be as there are always extra costs - so it is recommended to have 15% more than you think you'll need - and if possible access to quite a bit more - fines etc, can be expensive!).

SUMMARY.
Philibusters team budget as of 12/09/2011
(Note: The figures in parenthesis are the cost over and above expenses incurred if we were to just stay at home). You WILL be able to make economies on the following:

Crossing: £0
Fuel: £270 (£215)
Accommodation: £460 (£460)
Sustenance: £380 (£180)
Extras: £140 (£140)

(Also, allow Contingency @15%: £150)

So that cost - ie funds we'll need access to just before and when we're away will be in the order of £1,250 - or £625 per person excluding our chosen contingency. That's about £70 per day each. You cannot easily find a holiday in France cheaper than that, which includes the mileage and camping/hotel ratio. And when we deduct what it would have cost us to say at home, the cost falls to £995 - or £50 per head, per day.

How much?!!!.
The Philibusters budget is not as cheap as you can go, obviously. Take a diesel which you can sleep in, share a Hotel room, eat less etc. it will all have a bearing. Aim for somewhere between what I consider to be the realistic minimum (£700 for a single person team) and - well, £1,500 plus!

How much to save in advance? If each team member saves £20 per week for the next eight months, that's it covered.

Phil

mds141 · Post by **mds141** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:33 pm

Thanks Phil. Similar to the figures i had in mind. Single team member driving a valver who "likes his food", i was estimating around a grand. How do the Tesco vouchers work. Don't have a Tesco near to me so obviously have no vouchers, so how much is a crossing likely to be. Cheers Mark.

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:44 pm

Pretty sure we spent less than that budget on the BXagon, which lasted much longer. Can't imagine I had that much disposable income! F1 hotels are cheap, and a French breakfast isn't too costly. We kept well away from Peage and would aim to do likewise in Switzerland. You don't get to see a country from the motorways.

A quick guess at costs (over £400 total accommodation, about £360 in fuel) leaves me reckoning that we spent less than a grand between us - though I really can't recall how much we spent on food, so that might push us past the £1k figure. I imagine massive savings could be had by not eating out and by rough camping, as some did on the BXagon.

Incidentally - the reason I haven't booked for the next one yet is that last time, I was in full-time employment and on a decent wage. Now I'm self-employed, deliberately working fewer hours but living with far less income as a result! Whether I do this challenge depends on whether I can stash some money away by then...

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:51 pm

Do your best Ian, it'd be great to have you - and a certain Mk. 1 along

And Mark; I checked earlier; I think you could get a crossing for around £70 from Dover - a bit more from the other ports...

citsncycles · Post by **citsncycles** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:25 am

And Mark; I checked earlier; I think you could get a crossing for around £70 from Dover - a bit more from the other ports...

Check out DFDS to Dunkeurque - was Norfolk Line. Assuming they continue with their previous special offers you may be able to book a crossing for considerably less than that if you book early in the New Year.

I'm looking to economise as much as possible during the trip, taking tins for ease of storage and use, and supplementing them with fresh food from supermarkets. If I can rig the GS as a camping car, then the camp sites will be cheaper as I would avoid the charge for a tent. It would also make sleeping in motorway rest areas more comfortable!

Oh, and Phil, I've given up looking for my cheque book so will have to Paypal you and follow up with the entry form - please PM me with the neccessary. With regard to charity, I believe that they are supporting the British Heart Foundation at work, and I'm enquiring about raising money for them, but will confirm later.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:38 am

PM sent.

mds141 · Post by **mds141** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:09 am

Phil just to double check, do i/we need to pre-book campsite accomodation or are you going to sort that out. Or are we turning up on spec. Cheers Mark.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:17 am

Hi

I will (have already) provided the campsite details but as with the BXagon it is up to individual teams to book their chosen accommodation. Some sites are only just beginning to take bookings.

HOWEVER, at that time of year I am assured it's fine to 'just turn up'...

The Hotels are a bit more tricky; a couple seem to be full already (Sallanches Ibis for example - but I will check), so I will post a lot more alternatives.

Phil

artic-steel · Post by **artic-steel** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:02 pm

My ferry is booked, i leave Dover @ 0400 on the Wednesday morning (£11) return from Dunkerque @ 2200 on Sunday 20th (£17), plus a £12 fuel surcharge so my ferry is costing me £40.

Leaving very early because a) it's cheaper , b) it saves me the cost of a hotel in Calais.

Should still make the start in plenty of time.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:27 pm

Fantastic. Forms in or not, we have a pretty firm 11-15 teams and another 4 'hopefuls'. Looking good for May 2012...

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:08 pm

If you are thinking of taking part, please read this. Ta!

OK, everyone, it's getting to that point in the planning where accommodation needs to be considered. I know most will be camping on all but the last night of the event in Epinal, but it is a good idea to have booked back-up accommodation in hotels near(ish) to the proposed camp sites. Using a credit/debit card to secure the rooms, it will cost nothing if you don't need the rooms and cancel within the time limit detailed in the hotel's terms and conditions.

So, here is the information to help you plan - as well as get a better idea of where and what the proposed camping option is.

Remember: it is the responsibility of all participants to arrange their own accommodation for the Challenge.

I have attempted to provide, as well as the suggested stopover, a local alternative.

Regarding the camping, this is definitely not high season so it is unlikely we will encounter sites that are full. If possible, make bookings at sites (although most won't take reservations for pitches, unfortunately).

As mentioned above, as a back stop it's probably a good idea to book a room in an alternative Hotel - but if not taken, remember to cancel on the day - and before their cancellation time limit (usually 5 -7 pm - but in the case of the suggested Swiss (14th May) option it's two days before). It is highly unlikely we will all be able to stay in the suggested alternative hotel should the campsite be closed/flooded etc (hope not!), so use www.booking.com to find and book your preferred hotel (or what's actually available) as back-up accommodation.

IF you decide to cross on the 8th and stop-over:
Night of Weds 8th May:
Recommended Hotel: B&B Hotel Calais St. Pierre: http://www.hotel-bb.com/hotel_info?hotelId=4221 This is the START POINT of the drive to the SE.

Alternative Hotel option: http://www.ibishotel.com/gb/hotel-0715- ... ndex.shtml

Night of Thurs 9th May:
Camping: http://www.keycamp.co.uk/sites/france-l ... ourts.html €20 pitch.

Camping alternative: http://www.keycamp.co.uk/sites/france-l ... arais.html

Alternative Hotel option: There are many options - just check booking.com, but many appear (as I write this) to be fully booked. That's not to say rooms in hotels closer than Vierzon won't become available closer to the time.

This is our back-up hotel at the moment: http://www.arche-hotel.fr

Night of Fri 10th May:
Camping: http://www.camping-lebontemps.com/en/3/camping €19 pitch. Booking TBC, but probably first come first served.

Alternative Hotel option: Although only a low budget box to stay in - just in case - it is cheap at €45/room and - according to the reviews (which are best not read lol) there is supposedly secure parking: http://www.hotelscombined.com/Hotel/Hot ... Chanas.htm

There are others in the area, including a Campanile http://www.campanile.com/hotel/en/index.aspx in Chanas too for about €60-75/room.

Nights of Sat and Sun, 11th and 12th May:
Camping: http://www.campingleroustou.com/english €17 pitch/night = €34. No booking, just turn up.

Alternative Hotel option: Note: There are very few close to the camp site, and those that are nearby, are showing fully booked at the moment. There is one in Gap though: Hotel Pre Vert, http://www.hotel-prevert-gap.federal-hotel.com Note: it's for two nights (currently showing €45 per room per night).

Night of Mon 13th May:
Hotel: http://www.tripadvisor.in/Hotel_Review- ... Alpes.html we've booked a two-room apartment.

Alternative hotel: http://www.tripadvisor.in/Hotel_Review- ... Alpes.html

Camping option: http://www.campingdesecureuils.fr/?lang=en c.€17 pitch.

Night of Tues 14th May:
Camping: http://www.eurocampindependent.co.uk/ca ... 79_380_381 Booking TBC, but probably first come first served.

Camping option: http://www.lazyrancho.ch/pages/english/welcome.php

Alternative Hotel option: There are a decent cluster NW of Interlaken en route to Thun. This seems a decent budget Hotel: http://www.budgethotel-beatenberg.ch again, if possible book through Booking.com if poss.

Night of Weds 15th May:
Hotel (no camping option offered):
Ibis Epinal Centre Ville hotel: http://www.ibishotel.com/gb/hotel-0890- ... ndex.shtml

Most will be travelling back to the UK from here (and that is a distance of 375 miles, so a stop on the night of Thurs 16th May, in France is probably worth planning.

Phil

This information means I need to update the route plan's reference to accommodation options, so I will send a revised plan soon.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:04 pm

As featured in the next Citroenian...