Rob's 40 valves - can't stop the rock - or do I mean rot...

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djoptix
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F72

Post by djoptix » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:53 am

Right, I've had a call with the garage and the following failed MOT on the silver one:

NS and OS suspension pipes excessively corroded
Centre front fluid suspension supply pipe insecure
No movement in suspension - spheres need regassing? (did think it was a bit solid when I drove it)
Brake hoses need replacing all round probably.
Accumulator pump leaking, but this has been fixed by tightening the HP pipe.
OSF CV boot
Downpipe has a significant blow (oh dear)
Fuel pipe has leak at tank end.
Rear discs excessively etc (ordering these today)
Rear brakes recording little or no effort (not sure what's going on there; a good session of Hydraflush is probably the first thing to try).

I'll have to go and recover it soon, then look into these bits. Good thing is, no mention of rust. So I reckon if I can get on the case quickly, I can keep ahead of it (says Rob optimistically, having still not seen the car in daylight :D )

£54.85 damage so far, more to come doubtless. Onwards!

So I am contemplating getting into the piping side of things, have spoken to Pleiades and costs are as follows:

Tool £127.
4.5mm pipe is £3.30/m (and comes on a 15m roll)
3.5mm pipe is £2.90/m (and comes on a 10m roll)
3.5 fittings 55p, seals 20p
4.5 fittings 55p, seals 25p
4.5 couplers & 3.5 couplers £4.

All plus VAT.

However, they are completely out of 4.5mm fittings with no prospect of getting any more unless they do a run of 20,000 plus (which they aren't going to). So start stockpiling 4.5mm fittings now...
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G66

Post by djoptix » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:12 am

Old:

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New:

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Still doesn't start :(
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Re: Rob's 32 valves

Post by RobC » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:38 pm

How well versed in BXs was the tester?

The rear brakes thing is probably just that it was tested with little or no load on the rear suspension.

I've also had MoT testers in the past record the 'no movement in suspension' fail when the spheres etc have been perfectly fine, but they've stuck it in the wrong suspension position... Having said that I wouldn't be surprised if the spheres were flat, since it appears this BX has been stood around doing nothing for a number of years.

Over-zealous condemnation of minor LHM leaks is also common.

Of course if your tester was a BX expert then these may indeed be genuine faults and I take everything back ;)
1991 Citroen BX 16v

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Re: Rob's 32 valves

Post by djoptix » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:01 pm

Sadly, the tester ran a BX himself for a while a few years ago, and he's generally quite a lenient sort which is why I go to him ;)
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Re: Rob's 32 valves

Post by djoptix » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:35 am

Thankfully with my plans for the silver one being put on the back foot, I have made some progress with the red one. The lack of starting was traced to a fuel supply issue* and it started and rose happily yesterday. I've picked these up off the bay of dread too:

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A set of C5 steels with A539s on. They are a bit battered, the worst of these wheels that I have, but they came with the tyres on and were relatively cheap. So I can get these on the red one, and the silver phase 1 alloys on it will be up for sale - PM me if you're interested, they are in very good condition. This will actually be the first time I've fitted the C5 steels to a BX, so here's hoping they fit (since I have stockpiled several of them, I'll feel pretty bloody stupid if I have to sell them again)... Gary is using them on Bertie so I have no reason to think they won't fit though.

So with the red one in the air, the NS rear corner is extremely hard. Am I right in thinking that this means the gas in the sphere has probably leaked away? The sphere does look like this...

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Doesn't bode well really. There are two spare spheres which came with the car, in the dim distant past, and they look like this...

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Much better. Only how do I tell which end of the car they're for, or even if they are for a 16v at all? Are all BX spheres the same, apart from the internal pressure? Answers sought please!

In other news, I have finally managed to get hold of one of these:

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A baffled tin sump. Hurrah!

So the next step with the red one is to get the alloy panel into the roof; then (yes Tim!) clean it; and then it will be starting work on one end of the engine or the other. Either the top end (rocker cover gasket, exhaust cam oil seal) or the bottom (exhaust off, modify a downpipe, stainless system on, sump off, baffled sump on). Either of those means immobilising the car for a bit, so I'm trying to find some time in the diary, of which there is none at the moment...

News with the silver one is that I'll be removing it from the garage next week, and moving it to my parents' house where I can do the required work on it. So hopefully I should finally be able to post some pictures of it!

*There wasn't any
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Re: Rob's 32 valves

Post by djoptix » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:45 am

Oh and one other thing. I went to Prescott hillclimb the other day, which isn't that far from me. Apart from it being a beautiful day and watching extremely fast things drive up a hill - always fun - I have been thinking about aiming for hillclimbs and sprints with the red one, rather than track days. Track days have always been the plan but hillclimbs are, like, proper competition and everything! Obviously there's a long way to go, but it gives me a bit more to aim for.

With that in mind I was hoping to catch some running of the cars in the roadgoing production <2000cc class, where the BX would probably be. Unfortunately I was too late to see the practice runs for this class, and the commentator promised they would do their competitive runs that afternoon but they didn't, so I had to settle for taking some photos. Stuff like this:

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Re: Rob's 32 valves

Post by mat_fenwick » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:41 am

Any part numbers on the spheres? This tablemay help...

If flat it will feel tight all the way to the end of the thread - like as if it's been cross-threaded. Then will spurt LHM in your face.
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Re: Rob's 32 valves

Post by djoptix » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:55 am

That's a very helpful table Mat, thanks. We should sticky that somewhere.

The only numbers I could see were the one shown, "CRS-16", and what I assume is the date code. I'll have a closer look later on. Thanks for the tip, a face full of LHM sounds fun.

So are all spheres the same apart from pressure? Particularly, I'm guessing there must be a membrane with holes in it inside the sphere, for the LHM to pass through, with the size of hole equating to the dampers in a standard car...? The reason I ask is that I have a full set of GTi spheres, which I guess I could have re-gassed for the 16v. Ideally I'd like to try Luke's setup of 16v rear spheres on the front (30 bar) and XM rear spheres, re-gassed to 35 bar, on the rear.

Edit - just had a look and there are no useful part numbers on these spheres. I think I'll probably put them on the silver one to get it through the MOT, and see how they perform. That will be road only, so it doesn't matter if it's a bit more floaty.
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Re: Rob's 32 valves

Post by RobC » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:09 pm

As you will see from Mat's link, spheres vary according to gas volume, pressure, and bore!
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Re: Rob's 32 valves

Post by djoptix » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:19 pm

Oh yes. Thanks. </moron> Think first, post later... well, I'll just have to try the ones I have available and then work from there. By the looks of things, the random pair I have here are 1mm bore, which would make them rears from a 17RD. Seems a bit obscure to me, but then a hole that small is very difficult to measure and I'm only doing it by eye with a ruler!...

Irritating lack of progress on these cars, work keeps getting in the way and jobs keep coming up on the daily drivers, which are still fun but keep me away from BXs! I've just had to do the alternator on our Saab 900 and the stereo in the ToyBoata, now need to do the Toyota's clutch and starter motor which was unexpected... and both are long overdue for plugs, fluids and filters so those are happening this weekend... oh, and I had to extract the wiper nuts on the Toyota as they were rusted solid and the Autoglass man didn't dare take them off for fear of shearing the spindles on the wiper motor. The nuts were made of incredibly cheap metal by the looks of things, and just deformed when you so much as waved a spanner at them. They were 12mm, in the end I had to hammer on an 11mm socket, then put the bit in it and use a very large AJ on that.
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Re: Rob's 40 valves

Post by djoptix » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:05 pm

Holy thread update, over 2 years since the last one! As you may have seen from other bits of the forum I've picked up an 8v GTi. I now have a target in mind for it, have it on the road ready for the Retro-Rides Gathering at Shelsley Walsh on the 23rd August this year.

Amazingly I have actually made a bit of progress today. Nothing major but I'm trying to make progress little and often with this one. Therefore, it now has remote central locking (and it doesn't require you to hold the plip right next to the window of the car).

Following this excellent guide it was done in about half an hour.

Mid wiring, what a mess.

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Never mind, stuff it all back in there...

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I would have put an "after" picture, but it just looks normal

I do actually have the original plip for this car. I'll put it on ebay for £500 and see if anyone bites.
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Re: Rob's 40 valves

Post by djoptix » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:51 am

Here, proof! (click for video)

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On to the clutch issues. Getting the car off the delivery trailer revealed that it had almost no clutch travel - the pedal would almost to the floor before you felt any clutch movement, then there was about half an inch of travel before the pedal was in the floor.

Access was fiddly so the airbox has to come out. Once there, I found that the rocker arm/pusher pin arrangement was just misadjusted. The cup-ended bolt was miles too far back in the arm and the lock nut was on the wrong side. Now rearranged and it feels like it has a clutch again - I haven't tested it yet as I want to sort out the squeaky belts.

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Just in case this post was in danger of getting positive, here's a picture of the inner wing... oh dear...

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Re: Rob's 40 valves - unhappy running and hydraulics

Post by djoptix » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:21 am

Yesterday I had a look over a few things, still identifying faults really. Both the engine and the hydraulic system seem a but unhappy in the following ways...

ENGINE

Starts OK, will run for a few minutes, then sputters and dies.
When restarted, sounds like it's running on 2/3 at most.
Stalls under any sort of load.

Dizzy cap and rotor arm are OK. HT leads are (I think) OK, though I've ordered another cheapy set just to make sure. Spark plugs replaced - old ones grotty:

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However, the new ones made no difference. Battery is good. Your advice appreciated, BXers. I wonder if the mixture is too rich - presumably this would mean the AFM needs attention?

HYDRAULIC UNHAPPINESS

Front and rear suspension are very wallowy.
Brakes wooden and binding.
PAS definitely not working properly.
Haven't heard a tick, even when it has been running properly.
Yesterday I put it in high, it did rise eventually, though I'm not convinced to proper full height. It was up in the air about half an hour. Dropped it, suspension was now in Low (ie it went right to the ground and I had to get a crowbar under it to free the jack).

HP pump?
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Re: Rob's 40 valves - the last 8 of which aren't happy

Post by Kitch » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:35 pm

Does it have a TPS?

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Re: Rob's 40 valves - the last 8 of which aren't happy

Post by djoptix » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:58 pm

Yes, I think so, there's something on the TB anyway...
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