BXing on the Solent

Tell us about life with your BX, or indeed life in general!
Tinkley
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Tinkley » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:49 am

So is that you in the last shot? Just checking the rear sub frame inner mounting? :wink:

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Kitch
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Kitch » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:21 am

I think it's actually my brother. He wouldn't give a shit about the rear subframe mount :lol:

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Tim Leech
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1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL DBV468W
1985 CITROEN BX 19GT C1TBX
1991 CITROEN BX 19TZI AUTO A/C TAL91S
1994 CITROEN XANTIA 1.8 SXi M908HRY
1998 Rover 75 V6 Connoisseur Auto S392DEH
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Tim Leech » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:00 am

Same with me, my Dad brought home a MK1 BX after years of average motors, which is what started me off, just need to find a 19RD in black now...
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
1991 BX 19TZI Auto A/C
1994 Xantia 1.8i SX
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL
1979 Rover SD1 V8-S
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL
1998 Rover 75 2.0V6 Connoisseur Auto
2002 Rover 75 CDT Connossieur SE Nav
2002 Rover 45 1.6i Spirit S Special
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL 5 DR

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electrokid
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by electrokid » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:14 am

Excellent =D>
1992 BX19 TGD estate 228K Rusty - SORNed
2002 C5 HDi SX estate

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Kitch
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Kitch » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:30 pm

Kitch wrote:
That's until a mk1 16TRS manual in red pops up.......
Wow, just noticed I wrote this a couple of months back! Who'd have guessed?!

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Tim Leech
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My Cars: 1963 VW BEETLE 1200 KGJ413A
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL BFA720L
1979 Rover SD1 3.5 V8-S ERC742T
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL DBV468W
1985 CITROEN BX 19GT C1TBX
1991 CITROEN BX 19TZI AUTO A/C TAL91S
1994 CITROEN XANTIA 1.8 SXi M908HRY
1998 Rover 75 V6 Connoisseur Auto S392DEH
2002 Rover 75 CDT Connossieur SE Nav R40TSL
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL L33CHT
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Tim Leech » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:29 am

Kitch I have had a few interested parties in the Jersey car from a mention in the bxclusive.....you should get a call or two!
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
1991 BX 19TZI Auto A/C
1994 Xantia 1.8i SX
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL
1979 Rover SD1 V8-S
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL
1998 Rover 75 2.0V6 Connoisseur Auto
2002 Rover 75 CDT Connossieur SE Nav
2002 Rover 45 1.6i Spirit S Special
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL 5 DR

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Kitch
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Kitch » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:57 am

Good work Tim

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Kitch
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Kitch » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:38 pm

So, time to update the blog!

Sit-rep: 'BAH' the 16v is currently off the road. Pretty much every year since I-can't-remember-when, there have been a number of issues that need addressing. The heater cables need sorting. There's a hole in the rear inner wing, and the whole car hasn't been re-undersealed since i got it, and that was 11 years ago. The oil pressure gauge isn't working. The P.R is constantly open while idling, possibly due to a internally leaking strut. All sorts, basically.
As each year has gone on, the list has largely remained the same size. Sometimes I'd sort something out, and then something of equal annoyance of significance would replace it. Perks of running an old car, really. And as each year has gone on, I've failed to find time to address all these issues, instead deciding to put it on the road at the last minute and "Run it for just one more year!" What can I say? I love driving the thing. Always will! It's a lovely car, and probably the best 16v I've driven.
This year, however, the number of irks became more severe. The cooling fans stopped working. The rev counter stopped working. The heater matrix stopped working (just after I'd spent loads of time converting the thing to waterless coolant!) No fix is simple, because with every fix I have some sort of project involved from years previous (example being heater matrix - don't want to faff around with it now, because I plan to install air-conditioning and a new, un-cracked dashboard sometime in the future - stuff like that).

It was decided, just before the Chevrons Rally 2015, that it would limp there with leaking matrix/no cooling fans etc, and then limp back again to reside in the garage. It will be sitting next year out. I've got an AX GT to get on the road, which will provide the fun. I've got the mk1 16TRS (more on that later) to get on the road, to provide some BX action. And if the TRS doesn't suffice, the GT should be on the road for next summer too, unless it fancies throwing me even more in the way of curveballs!

I took this picture over the road from my house at the end of the day out at the Chevrons Rally (excellent event BTW, well done to all involved). Quite apt, that the picture matches the name of the blog:

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Aside from a brief forray back out to work to try on some wheels I had refurbished, BAH is sitting out in the dark garage at the bottom of my garden. I much prefer it being there, too. Home just doesn't feel like home when the 16v's not here :lol:


So the next BX-phase for me now kicks into action. Been working on the GT for years now. Thought the best thing I could do was dive back into another mk1! More on that in a bit.

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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Tinkley » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:23 am

Glad to hear the TRS is going to get worked on. I'm sure BAH will live to fight another day. Be interesting to see what that early 16 is like especially compared to the later ones with a bit more poke. They're still quite nicely balanced cars, even if they lack the poise and nimbleness of the ZX/306. Must admit I'd probbaly fit the later MK2 type subframe pins, and bushes though I know you want an 'original'.... :wink:

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Kitch
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Kitch » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:41 am

Oh yes, BAH will live to fight another day, for sure. It's just I've got so many projects on the go at once that I've decided to place BAH on the backburner, and the main reason I can do that is that I know if I had a change in circumstances and had to ditch all the projects, I'd have space for one car, and that one car would be BAH.

I'm very excited at the prospect and spending some time behind the wheel in the TRS, though. I've had a couple of mk1 16's before - an '85 16RS manual, and an '85 16TRS Auto. Really didn't go much on the auto, which engine-wise was the same as the mk1 I have today, as it just drained what relatively little power there was to start with. I like the idea of this mk1 sitting on skinny tyres, very softly sprung with a healthy engine and shorter gear ratios. I don't remember much about the 16RS I had, weirdly, and I probably did more miles in that. That car lives on in N.Ireland. It was a good one. In terms of power though, I'm pretty sure the power figures are about the same for the early cars vs. later ones? Around 90bhp or so.

I'd really like to keep the early mk1 subframe. Turns out my Dad's GT has the later subframe, as the changeover occured in Sept 1985 - the month his car was built. I've got lots to report on with the mk1, so that'll all come soon enough.

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Tim Leech
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My Cars: 1963 VW BEETLE 1200 KGJ413A
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL BFA720L
1979 Rover SD1 3.5 V8-S ERC742T
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL DBV468W
1985 CITROEN BX 19GT C1TBX
1991 CITROEN BX 19TZI AUTO A/C TAL91S
1994 CITROEN XANTIA 1.8 SXi M908HRY
1998 Rover 75 V6 Connoisseur Auto S392DEH
2002 Rover 75 CDT Connossieur SE Nav R40TSL
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL L33CHT
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Tim Leech » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:44 am

I know what you mean about projects, ive had the red Xantia 10 years next month and it still not right, ie also got J119 and a metro to sort, which to be honest wont take much, J119 will be going on holiday to Blackpool next year for a long rest and come back looking shiny!
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
1991 BX 19TZI Auto A/C
1994 Xantia 1.8i SX
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL
1979 Rover SD1 V8-S
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL
1998 Rover 75 2.0V6 Connoisseur Auto
2002 Rover 75 CDT Connossieur SE Nav
2002 Rover 45 1.6i Spirit S Special
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL 5 DR

Tinkley
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Tinkley » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:00 pm

It does look like there is a small difference (cam? carb?) between the 171 B and the 171 C engines, otherwise it is all carburettor and manifold emission crap. Although I suspect the later ones may have a better grade of material for the valve seats to run with unleaded. I've not driven my Auto at all, except home and fixed it - felt OK actually, but it is one of the very last carb ones being Aug 91. For towing the boat it would not be any use round here as you need the 5 ratios as per the 1.4.... :wink:
At least refurbing the engine won't be a problem as I haven't run into any serious shortage of parts - 113 tooth cambelt, idler. w/pump, valve stem seals etc etc all available. One thing I would do which you probably will do anyway is change the 'rubber' parts such as thermostat seal, distributor O ring etc as I've just done mine and they were rock hard - and that's only 11 years on a full recon.
Got enough trouble right now trying to get the Athena ready for it's next MOT in December. Like BAH a whole stack of small things, front wheel bearing, rear arms (one R clip siezed), heater flaps not opening, water from sunroof flooding fuse box etc etc. It'll get there or I'll run around in the Auto for a bit.... :wink: pretty sure it will pass an MOT now with sympathetic tester on smoke emissions (valve stem seals) on start up...

Best of luck with her. Might be worth keeping a watchful eye on stuff for a Mk 1 over the water in France? ie subframe.

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Kitch
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Kitch » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:23 pm

I think the difference in the specs between the 1.6 models would probably pale into insignificance with the health and strength of a given engine at a given mileage. Bottom line is that none of the 1.6 models are quick, so if I don't except speed I won't be disappointed! I'll be playing engines later, though I'm hoping to just refresh a few rubber bits and carry on.

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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Kitch » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:31 pm

So, update on the 16TRS:

Earlier in the year I managed to relocate the mk1 from home to my workshop, so it can get in the way during the day too. :lol:

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When I collected the car, it did run, though not well. Nothing serious, but it was always a bitch to start and I suspected the Weber DRTC carb was the culprit. It was obviously carrying that horrible manual choke conversion, and probably a fair bit of internal corrosion from sitting around for years and years. In the time it sat in my garage, it went from running poorly to not running poorly. Or well. Or at all. Bugger.
Seeing as I needed to determine how severe my LHM leaks were, I needed to have a running car. So the first stop was a carb rebuild. Luckily I had another DRTC in my spares stash, complete with autochoke unit. I didn't realise I did, until I found it! Still don't remember how I got it - was probably part of a project to make an AX GT use more fuel and not go much quicker. And even more luckily - I found a carb rebuilt kit in the glovebox of the TRS! So the carbs were set side by side, and though I wanted to keep the 16 all original, I was prepared to make a good carb out of the two. The original may have only done 17k miles, but corrosion is not bound by mileage:

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The original carb with manual conversion

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The used spare DRTC with autochoke

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Good carb built up and fitted:

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It runs! Only you can't tell, because the rev counter doesn't work:

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Kitch
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Re: BXing on the Solent

Post by Kitch » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:07 am

(apologies if some of this reads like teaching BX fans to suck eggs - it's formatted for other forums too)

So, having got the engine running again (and very sweetly it runs too) my attentions turned to the retention of green blood, or more specifically, the lack of it. Because the TRS has been off the road for so many years, and because all the high pressure pipes on an early car aren't really protective coated, most of them have turned to rust. Those who know me will recall my venting anger at the seemingly obvious cover-up by the guy I got it from to conceal the catastrophic LHM leak (the car was FREE, what was I going to do if he told me? Haggle him down??) One ruined trailer bed later (and one very pissed off wife on one very late night spent out scrubbing LHM off the street outside a motorcyclist's house) I discovered the leak emanating from the subframe area. Obviously you think subframe, you think octopus, but because it was having trouble even pressurising, I figured it was more likely a high-pressure line failure. So, I had to run the car up, tighten up the bleed screw and see what came out. It didn't take long:

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Ah, that'll be those pipes then. The ones that break in two when you touch them:

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Realistically, half the car needs re-piping. Knowing that the front subframe needs to come off, I'll leave that for a later date and busy myself with something less messy. Wheels, I think:

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Tyres removed (kept one for a spare. Seemed a shame to bin one of the original Michelins, though hope I never need to use it! I then began to set about each wheel in the grit-blaster. Plan is full blast, prep and paint with POR15 and then prime, before finding a matching light grey to the original finish.
30mins in the blaster, and I realised it's not going to happen like that:

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Most of the coating still there! Quick chat with Vernon at the Wheel Specialist in Fareham confirmed they're probably originally coated in a form of powder, which the shot is softening with the heat caused by friction and is then bouncing off of. He suggested they be acid-dipped, and though I wanted to do them myself, I think I'm going to have to relent.

So, with the wheels a failure currently, I found some others to roll it over to the two-post ramp on, and decided now is as good a time as any to just dive in on that subframe:

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The hubs and brakes are a bit.....driveway stored:

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As are the brake pipe mounting brackets:

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It's all looking a bit....meh:

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Then I blew across the subframe with the air line, and this happened:

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Very meh!

More meh:

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So, the subframe needs to come out then! I had a feeling this was the case, though there are reasons why I was hoping that it would be ok, which I'll get on to later. In the meantime I start removing the brakes, and immediately hit a French WTF moment:

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So, having failed to removing the pent-headed bolt, I remove some 32 year old gearbox oil:

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Before removing the inner wheel arches to see what horrors lay underneath. I've already got loads to do on this car, so surely a bit more is in order? Well, no, thankfully!:

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Aside from the end caps of the sills, a rub down, treat and paint, and she's good to go!

One of the first items out, the front/rear crossbrace fitted to mk1 BXs:

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Bit manky! Structurally of no importance at all, as Citroen ditched it for the mk2.

Getting there! Lots of bolts that haven't been removed in 32 years, but on the whole it actually played ball for the most part. I don't think I sheered a single bolt underneath:

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Obviously to remove a front subframe, you need to remove the front seats. Obviously:

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Totally by the by: The alarm keyfob that used to be on my Dad's keyring for his old red 16TRS. I've got the rear number plate, this, and a graphic equaliser from it!
With the car having no service history at all, even finding this piece of wet & dry with red overspray on, along with an old tax disc from 1998 gives me something!
The reason for taking the seats out:

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Had to pop the plastic :( :

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Subframe lowering:

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Subframe off:

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Oh dear:

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Hardy disc is not so hard:

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Gives a bit more room to sort some of the remaining bits under there, like cambelt, more suspension pipes, gear linkage and suspension height linkage overhaul and more:

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Stripping the subframe down ready to get it shot blasted:

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Wishbones bushes seem ok, but will probably fail within weeks of first being used:

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The infamous bearing!

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When the BX first came out in 1982 (October '83 for UK cars) the cars featured a subframe design incorporating a wishbone fitted with conventional bushes, and a bearing in the subframe through which the wishbone could pivot. The idea being that the bushes take care of the shock loadings and NVH, and the bearings take care of suspension movement. Seems ideal, really, however Citroen dropped this idea in September 1985, reverting to a more conventional design where the bush acts as the pivot too, meaning that not only was the bearing subframe only fitted to mk1 models, it was also only fitted to the initial models. My Dad's GT, for example, has the later conventional bush setup, but is still a mk1 subframe. Because this car is so painfully original, I want to try and preserve everything, including the bearing subframe, even though most of the early cars have long since had their bearing subframes binned and been retrofitted with the later bush version.
For now, because the subframe is marginal on the viability of rescuing it, I've bunged the bearings up with some Sierra anti-roll bar cup washers (perfect fit, result!) In any case, the bearings currently in there are totally screwed, presumably due to it sitting on low for years and years.

Here we have a wishbone from the TRS and a wishbone from the GT:

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I send the subframe away, and decide to remove the front bumper to gain some access to the front panel, which needs stripping and treating. Ten M6 scerws to undo, and the bumper should gracefully part with the car. Nope. What I actually have is four M6 screws, four M6 speed nuts in the front panel and then six lumps of M6 screw & speed nut-shaped pieces of corrosion. The bolts turn, oh yes. Problem is the nuts do too, and there's no access to them. So it's out with Mr Drill, and try not to melt the bumper!:

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These played ball, amazingly:

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The subframe is back from the blaster!

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And knackered. Yay! But, not too knackered. And so, it begins:

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And that's where we're up to. More when it happens!

The early version uses a similar arm, but the bush is different and the spindle is 14mm in diameter, not 16mm.