John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

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Dragon Man
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Dragon Man » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:14 am

Well its been a week or two. sadly not much has happened.

the heater matrix and tap is in, another clutch and another flywheel later and i have got the engine and gearbox back together again.
the timing belt is all fitted now after the kit i bought being the wrong one.. naturally. the timing belt covers are, the starter is bolted up, the alternator is kinda on.. its starting to look like a complete engine.

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i think they need painting to be fair.

more and more leak off returns are being replaced on the car..

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octopus mk2..
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and now i need to somehow make an adaptor plate for this happy fellow.
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also need to make some kind of boost pressure controller up for it.. this turbo uses vacuum to actuate the vanes.. which is something the BX does not have.. well the diesel one anyway. im sure i can make a simple computer up using a pressure sensor, 8 bit micro controller (arduino maybe), and a solenoid to get the desired pressure. i could just swap over the actuators as the one on the original turbo is setup to run on boost pressure over vacuum. or i could mod the actuator on the new turbo to use boost pressure (by putting the spring on the other side of the diaphragm) technically that would make it so the turbo would actuate at 14.8 PSI. add a washer or two and that may put it up to 20 - 22psi. ill have to test it with the compressor first.
that turbo was weighed in as scrap, so i have bough a whole new cartridge for it.. pretty much all new inners and just use the original outers. the plus is that i got it for free.. but the new cartridge did cost around £80. still though, not bad for an effectively brand new turbo.

i am also considering replacing some of the coolant pipes as loads have split or have cracks. with them being in the shape they are in though, i dont know where i would get them from.

now i just have to find out the right gearbox oil to use...
Last edited by Dragon Man on Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- JohnDragonMan

Drives: a classic Panda 4x4 called Project Fallout
classic Panda 4x4 Sisley named Talon
broken BX Diesel Estate in silver that's currently for sale.

Fix it Again Tomorrow. no special tools needed, always able to fix it! :)

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Dragon Man
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Dragon Man » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:03 am

well thats the gearbox oil.. some "Total gear 8" GL-4 spec too. nice to see they still make it.. the gearbox oil for the fiat panda is super rare to find.

anyway i have got the new cartridge for the turbo today so i did a strip clean on the new variable geometry turbo i have. it was pretty caked up inside also had a bit of play in the spindle too.. and a lot of evidence that it was passing oil quite bad too.

though the play is not huge.. it is quite noticeable..

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new cartridge being installed...
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just cleaning the veins on the hot side of the turbo..

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now to make a plate with studs to adapt this turbo to this manifold..
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these turbos.. such a simple design and so much better than the old waste gate design. makes you wonder why they did not come about sooner.

ahh till next week.. and oh another video for you guys to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViUx4VphiXY
- JohnDragonMan

Drives: a classic Panda 4x4 called Project Fallout
classic Panda 4x4 Sisley named Talon
broken BX Diesel Estate in silver that's currently for sale.

Fix it Again Tomorrow. no special tools needed, always able to fix it! :)

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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Tim Leech » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:38 am

You've certainly impressed me with your talents John!
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Jaba » Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:42 pm

Tim Leech wrote:You've certainly impressed me with your talents John!
Yes I am impressed too, it makes me feel inadequate.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

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Dragon Man
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Dragon Man » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:42 pm

thanks guys, to be fair i dont class the work i do to be all that great.. the only thing i did with the engine was swap some bits over and slap red paint on it.

sadly no pictures today, but i promise i will get some tomorrow :)

i went out today to get a stainless right angle turbo exhaust exit made up.. damn £54.99 later and i have a bit.. it looks to be a little bit too long but we will see.. i got a nice quote of about £350 for the exhaust, however its £50 an hour for fitting and making so it could mount up to quite a lot. i think it would be worth it though.. if i had the kit to stainless steel weld, i would do it myself.

i spent the rest of the day under sealing the front arches, inner arch skins and all around and behind where the front bumper hides.. a bit in the engine bay too.. stuff that has started to bubble like around holes in the skins.

i dont like rust.

i am hoping to get the engine in soon.. any other advice before i do drop the engine in?

the gearbox oil is here too along with a replacement bit of lime green pipe i am going to use for the ABS return. more for looks really as theirs nothing wrong with the old polyurethane pipe.

a bit of a question about the BX aircon system,

i know its old school R12 (dichlorodifluoromethane) refrigerant.. has anyone on here managed to convert theirs to the more modern R134A (tetrafluoroethane)?
i know that pump oils need to be changed but i am unsure as to what kind.. i also am not sure on how much needs to be used. i am also not sure on how much charge (in grams) the whole system takes (of R12). does anyone know this?
i am going to change all of the O ring seals on it at some point.
i have a vacuum pump that i will evacuate the whole system with, leave it in vacuum and re-vacuum it when i can find a qualified person to charge the system for me... not that i have all of the kit to do it myself or anything.. 8-[ :-"

i am looking forward to working on the rear of the car. i was talking to a chap on the BX facebook group and he told me about a sub frame mod i can do to help prevent the hydraulic struts on the rear from getting any worse. i have not looked at them yet but if they are anything like the fronts, they still look new!

see you all tomorrow!
- JohnDragonMan

Drives: a classic Panda 4x4 called Project Fallout
classic Panda 4x4 Sisley named Talon
broken BX Diesel Estate in silver that's currently for sale.

Fix it Again Tomorrow. no special tools needed, always able to fix it! :)

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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by mat_fenwick » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:42 pm

There's a bit of information here:
https://www.bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=17538

Mine was filled by monitoring the cabin vent temperature, and stopping filling when it got acceptably cold. Seems a bit of a bodge to me; that said it's been working fine for 10 years so maybe a legitimate bodge!
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by jamescarruthers » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:03 am

Was directed here for a similar question about the XM. The BX is in there too.

http://www.autototal.ro/dmdocuments/Cat ... 0Hella.pdf
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by jamescarruthers » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:08 am

Given those values for the original oil and gas, an air con filler can work out what volume and weight of modern equivalent to put in.
1987 Volvo 480 ES
1992 Renault Master Mk. 1. Machzone Chateau camper. 2.0 LPG

Previous BX's:
A966 XRL -- BX 16 TRS
H767 BEG -- BX 14 TGE
B316 AMP -- BX 14 E

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Dragon Man
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Dragon Man » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:06 am

jamescarruthers wrote:Given those values for the original oil and gas, an air con filler can work out what volume and weight of modern equivalent to put in.
Thanks! i bet theres quite a few been after that info! the fact it tells me the oil and gas quantity is just awesome!
- JohnDragonMan

Drives: a classic Panda 4x4 called Project Fallout
classic Panda 4x4 Sisley named Talon
broken BX Diesel Estate in silver that's currently for sale.

Fix it Again Tomorrow. no special tools needed, always able to fix it! :)

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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by rutter123 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:26 am

I would recommend replacing the clutch cable before installing the engine as it's a pig to fit one after due to limited access, also fit the exhaust down pipe if poss as this is also a 2 man job once the lump is in and consider fitting the fuel lines to the pre heater first as access here is also tight.
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Dragon Man
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Dragon Man » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:38 am

after reading the chart that jamescarruthers posted,
it says that the oil used goes in both R12 and R134A systems.. on googling "PAO 68 oil" it comes back with it being an oil that can be used with multiple kinds of refrigerant, compatible with both R12 and R134A! this is good news.
sadly i lost quite a bit of oil out of my compressor so i will have to get some, its pretty cheap though :D

(note that *some* oils in AC systems when doing the R12 to R134A conversion can go acidic if old oil of a different kind is left behind! so the whole system has to be flushed... it looks like we can get away with this! :mrgreen: )

for reference,
the Diesel BX takes 800 grams of R12 refrigerant, and 135ml of PAO 68 oil which is compatible with both R12 and R134A.
the petrol 1.9 GTi 16V (with XU9J4 engine) uses 800 grams of R12 refrigerant and 135ml of PAO 68 oil.
other petrol BX's take 1000 grams of R12 refrigerant and 135ml of PAO 68 oil.

i remember years back when i helped out in a garage that when changing from R12 to R134A you only used 80-85% of the original R12 charge. (check up on this though)

say we are going to use the 85% ratio,
with the BX's using 800 grams of R12, it would only need 650 grams of R134A charge.
with BX's using 1000 grams of R12, it would only need 850 grams of R134A charge.

result or what?!
- JohnDragonMan

Drives: a classic Panda 4x4 called Project Fallout
classic Panda 4x4 Sisley named Talon
broken BX Diesel Estate in silver that's currently for sale.

Fix it Again Tomorrow. no special tools needed, always able to fix it! :)

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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Jaba » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:56 pm

The quantity of R134a you need is usually reckoned to be 80% of the R12 value.
That Hella chart shows the 16v and the TD need 200g less than the 1000g of other BXs. This is because they use a smaller condenser than the rest. You can tell the difference because the standard 1000g condenser has a flat aluminium coil and the 16v has a circular coil and is not as high - hence the lower capacity.
The garage and aircon trade use almost exclusively PAG oil when they recharge so when I did the R12 conversion on my 2 BXs I put in the compatible Ester oil into the compressor first. They knew what quantity of refrigerant to put in but I did check first that they did know and I watched the scales go down as it went in to verify.
Don't forget to change the drier receiver at the same time.
Last edited by Jaba on Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

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Dragon Man
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Dragon Man » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:31 pm

to be fair i do prefer the older AC condensers. they may not be as efficient when it comes to transferring heat but they NEVER corrode.. these modern ones are horrendous for corrosion.

anyway, as promised here are the pictures.

the heater valve is in and replaced
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the interior looks a mess though the huge stack of car parts have reduced a lot
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sadly i forgot to grind the welds down gahh. as i slapped the first bit of under seal on i realised.. so i just though to hell with it. it is after all covered by the outer arch.

what a nice mess..
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even the engine bay did not survive the tar brush

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i have also got to fix this which i have been putting off.. but it must be done. at least if i make a pigs ear of it, the washer bottle hides it 8-[

Image


some people hate underseal.. but to be fair i just want a car thats going to last me years and years. ill look forward to doing the cavity waxing, but i think that will happen when i can drive the thing as its a job i would do at home.

are we there yet?
- JohnDragonMan

Drives: a classic Panda 4x4 called Project Fallout
classic Panda 4x4 Sisley named Talon
broken BX Diesel Estate in silver that's currently for sale.

Fix it Again Tomorrow. no special tools needed, always able to fix it! :)

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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by rutter123 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:06 am

Thats not the nicest of places to weld up under the screenwash reservoir, i have not long done my estate, after knocking out all the rot i found it needed some welding from the top and the underneath, not the neatest job but now solid nonetheless-as you say it's out of sight, sadly mine a lot worse on the offside than it initially looked. Plenty of brush on Tetroseal and the jobs a goodun.
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
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Dragon Man
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Post by Dragon Man » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:02 pm

yeah tetroseal is the stuff i am using now, the hammerite stuff is useless starts to crack off after a year, it has on my first panda.

i managed to sort out the rust under the washer bottle. i got the grinder in the wheel arch and managed to cut out all of the rust that way. i then managed to open the seam and slide the plate in, weld it in, grind down the welds, underseal then fold the seam back together, and underseal again. this is the result..

Image

Image
- JohnDragonMan

Drives: a classic Panda 4x4 called Project Fallout
classic Panda 4x4 Sisley named Talon
broken BX Diesel Estate in silver that's currently for sale.

Fix it Again Tomorrow. no special tools needed, always able to fix it! :)