LHM leak!

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:41 pm

I'm not sure where on that diagram the break is, but I think it's just before the pipe enters the octopus. I wasnt able to see the octopus, just a place where two pipes converged into a larger pipe or pipe shroud and according to my friend one of the pipes was actually split.

At the weekend I'll raise the car (onto axle stands) and get a photograph of where it's split so i can give a better idea of the exact location of the problem.

If it is just the pipe, how long would a replacement need to be, and how does it attach? Going by the diagram, the strut return pipes are 5mm. Do they need to be specific type of pipe in order to not be corroded?

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:42 pm

Just a note of caution. Be ABSOLUTELY sure that the car is secure. First of all remember the handbrake operates on the FRONT wheels. Chock the rear wheels. Consider blocks under the front too.

Drive up ramps are probably a better bet than axle stands, as the wheels can stay on for this inspection. Just a thought.

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:20 pm

I'd like a pair of drive up ramps but i'm a little short on funds at the moment and i need to get a trolley jack still.

What is best to chock the back wheels with? I have used big stones before to stop them moving but there must be a more suitable way of doing it. Shame theres no way to lock the rear wheels with the handbrake but I know why it needs to be on the front.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:07 pm

You can pick up a pair of caravan wheel chock/wedges for about a fiver. Maybe a friendly neighbour has a pair? So to speak.

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:37 pm

Bricks in good condition will do the chock job - a lot better than random stones as they have predictable edges - but never use them to support a car as they can crumble.

Last month I rescued some plastic chocks from a caravan about to be dismantled for this purpose. I've also chocked with substantial straight-edged pieces of of wood, approaching railway sleeper cross-section.

What's perhaps just as important is this. If you're doing any of the following with the front of a BX on stands:

(i) Setting the height level to lowest position
(ii) Releasing the hydraulic pressure
(iii) leaving the car supported on stands at the front overnight.

Beware rear wheel 'creep'. As the rear sinks, the rear wheels move back, because of the way rear arm suspension works. Allow for this by repositioning chocks, if the rear of the car is going to fall further after you've got the axle stands in place.

If the car's standing on even a slight downward slope towards the nose, then you can risk literally pushing the car off the stands.

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:37 pm

Okay.. I have had the car up, both me and Tourist underneath and a lot of investigation and trying to see past shafts and pipes. It seems like the LHM is leaking from where the octopus is, and it is a pretty bad leak. The two pipes that are going in look as if they arent in properly but they probably are. I emptied the last of my LHM bottle into the resovoir today but theres still hardly any left, its lost almost all its LHM since it started leaking at the beginning of the week.

We took some photographs showing as best as possible where the LHM is leaking from/over but everything above the subframe was nearly completely obscured.

http://img168.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img1612q.jpg

I'm pretty screwed really, I can't even see where exactly its leaking and soon there won't be any LHM left at all.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:23 pm

Not completely easy to see, but I'd put money on it being the octopus.

£30 for a new one, and some fairly serious swearing to fit one.

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:10 pm

Where can I order one from for £30? I can only see them on GSF and citispares for over £40

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:11 pm

A warm day a patiance to replace that octupus and it will be money and time well spent because that LHM expense is unesserary.

Yes its a bitch of a job to do unless
A. Your comfortable ie good working space underneath
B. Your Patiant and believe me it will be tested
C. You sit the thing correctly

Enjoy the experiance

pitman · Post by **pitman** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:43 pm

To delimit the amount of LHM getting wasted, I detached the octopus pipes from the offside.

I took off the three pipes from the LHM reservoir and labelled them with smal cable binders (one binder and two binders, the third has a plastic piece).

Suspension strut return pipes carry only once a significant flow when the car is jacked up, but my car was on level over a pit.

The two plastic pipes from the rear kept always almost dry with me.

I also detached the rubber pipe without clip (part of the octopus ) from the height corrector. This is height corrector leak return.

Now, you can see how easy or not you can handle this pipe. Would you be able to refit it again?

I guess you surely need to detach this engine mounting thing what is in front of your second image. Shown there is the 19mm bolt. 16 mm is on the left where this round rubber thing is. I think it's worth to fit all the time you would start the engine again for testing as if left out it lets the engine bump against somewhere at least at start or stop and it can worsen the other engine mounts.

You can fit plastic bottles at the end of the detached pipes or fit the lose end from the pipes taken off from the LHM reservoir to the now open connectors, as suspension strut, and leak return height corrector. But in my case that didn't catch almost no LHM.

If you see then the rubber pipe with the clip from the functional return (higher pressure than leak return) being fine, then it's only the octopus.

In my case, this functional return kept on leaking with a strong flush when changing the height of the car. This pipe had no signs of damage but it was obviously porous as the bubbles test showed.
I could pull the pipe up the top of the engine and with a shallow plastic box full of of water I could blow into the pipe and see bubbles coming out.
Some funny moments during this complete nightmare ...

This functional leak return pipe is atually far more difficult to attach than the octopus pipes. I read that some people have done it without unscrewing more things than the engine mount but they didn't say how.
It might depend much on how the car is jacked up or over pit and so on and it might depend much on your body or rather on the size of your arms and fingers.

I found one position to shove the right arm over the steering rack as much as I can and hold the pipe with two fingers. With the left hand coming from where the engine mount is, I guided the pipe with two fingers and pushed the rightly curved pipe onto the height corrector with the two fingers from the right hand.
The more energy you have in arms and fingers, the more trials you get ...

When I got the rubber pipe over the metal pipe connector, I used long-nose pliers to shove it over the rest of the metal pipe connector of the height corrector.

Long-nose pliers will be helpful, too, to attach the plastic pipes from the rear to their appropriate octopus pipes.

Bear in mind that most garage including Citroen dealers would either decline the job or suggest to take the offside axle off or even take the complete engine out.

You can also get a clue from what is leaking by looking how much is leaking under what conditions.

Constanly dripping when engine on: I would say cut in the functional return pipe.

Flush only when changing height: Almost certainly functional return pipe or membranes from height corrector itself.

All octopus pipes themselves carry much less LHM, they leak only after a significant amount of LHM has accumulated on the leaky position.

Well, that's what I found so far after replacing the octopus two years ago and this time searching desperately for a leak at the same location which turned out the "small" octopus this time.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:33 pm

Boxwolf wrote:Where can I order one from for £30? I can only see them on GSF and citispares for over £40

The price may have gone up... the last one I bought was a bit over £30, but wasn't as much as £40...

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:04 pm

DavidRutherford wrote:
Boxwolf wrote:Where can I order one from for £30? I can only see them on GSF and citispares for over £40
The price may have gone up... the last one I bought was a bit over £30, but wasn't as much as £40...

Where did you order it from? it seems GSF one is cheaper but then with the VAT and postage added its over £50 - the citispares one is just over £43 and it looks like that includes VAT and postage.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:17 pm

I'd try and find out if either is genuine...there seems to be some question marks over the quality of the rubber used in pattern hydraulic pipes. I.e. on mine the strut return pipes had been replaced by pattern ones just before I bought it - they lasted about 2.5 years! If you're spending a good few hours changing the octopus it makes sense not to be doing it again for as long as possible.
It's possible to do it wit hthe driveshaft in situ, but it does make it easier with it out. If you haven't taken a driveshaft out before I'd be tempted not to bother as it may take you a while. It helps when changing the octupus to put colour coded zip ties (or similar) round the ends of the pipes on the car, and on the octopus, which are then transferred onto the new one. Match teh colours up and you're away!

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:48 am

well ya learn somthin new everday

And also forget to pass some crucial stuff on

Coloured coding Cable Ties now that I agree with and did makes the job of what goes where and came from where a whole lot easier.

pfft remove the engine mounts and drive shat! Yea makes it easier but takes the fun out IMO. Yes there will be a couple of pipes that wont go back in from memory it was the ones to the rear for me. Bit of extending was carried out using said cable ties and old Octopus

jonathan_dyane · Post by **jonathan_dyane** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:01 am

When I have done the job in the past I have found removing the O/S driveshaft, and removing the casting which is the driveshaft intermediate bearing housing and engine mount bracket very useful, which permits wedging the engine forward with a block of wood to permit a little more space.

It's not a hard job, just fiddly and infuriating.