EMERGENCY - Ignition lock cylinder bust - need advise SOONES

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Mike Holdstock
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Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

EMERGENCY - Ignition lock cylinder bust - need advise SOONES

Post by Mike Holdstock »

The ignition key cylinder gave up today. I could see that one of the pins was sticking up a way it shouldn't be in there, and no amount of waggling could get it to accept the key.

Therefore trying to remove the cylinder in the hope that the lock can be bypassed and the vehicle moved. Currently standing all lonesome in a public car park outside an office block.

Steering locked straight ahead which means I cant move the steering wheel which makes access to the ignition assembly a bit limited, but it is exposed.

I have accessed the cylinder, removed a bolt that goes through the cylinder housing (metal) at about 1 oclock. I have been told that I can get the cylinder out by pressing down a pin - which is at about 11 oclock - and withdrawing the cylinder, but no way will that pin, apparently, go in far enough to allow the cylinder (and plastic round it) to be pulled out.

Need some advise about
1. how to get the cylinder out of the housing

2. how to bypass the cylinder and the steering wheel lock so that I can
a. start
b. have ignition current
c. steer.

All donations will be most gratefully received!

Mike

PS I don't know why the learning curve has been so steep since I found this forum, but many many thanks already.
Last edited by Mike Holdstock on Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
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jonathan_dyane
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

I haven't dealt with this in th BX, but in my experience this problem can be invariably resolved as follows.

Tools needed: big screwdriver and hammer.

1) Set about the lock barrel with the screwdriver and hammer. After a bit, it will start to break up, and the debris can be removed.

2) You will find a lever arrangement which mechanically locks the steering. Either smash this off, or secure it in such a way that it cannot lock the steering while you're driving.

3) Once enough of the barrel has been removed, you will arrive at the electical part of the ignition switch. This will probably have a slot which you can turn with your screwdriver, or be graspable in some way. This will start the car, but be aware the spring that returns the switch from the 'starter' position may now be u/s resulting in you having to back the switch off manual, so as to disengage the starter.

If you do this with care, all you will have destroyed will have been the knackered lock barrel, and when you obtain the replacement it may be simply fitted it place of the original.
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski
Mike Holdstock
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Post by Mike Holdstock »

Much obliged Jonathan. I'll be back with the bird tomorrow afternoon, armed with the tools as suggested. Maybe I was wasting my time unscrewing all the panels.

Anyone got more knowledge about the lever that mechanically locks the steering on a BX ? I would hate to have it enguage while I am on my way home.

I believe your method could be classified as "necessary violence" Jonathan. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind .Many thanks.

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
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TB2
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Post by TB2 »

Check out these two threads where people (one of them me) had lost their keys and had to get out the ignition barrel:

http://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=104775#104775
or
http://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10809

If Jonathans method of using a hammer doesn't work, try a small drill/grinder, as I did as in the first link. Works like a charm.

About how the lever locks the steering:
At the end of the ignition barrel there's a big rigid shaft that fits into the steering column, if you have removed said pin using a hammer or drill, make sure to slide the ignition barrel out far enough so that the shaft will not slide back into the steering column. If the barrel is out, there's no worry of the lock engaging while driving. I have no idea on how to start the engine though with a busted lock.

Good luck!
Carl

1989 TRD "Entreprise" Turbo Diesel
1989 16 Valve
---
Parts needed:
- One black leather headrest.
- FDV overhaul kit (95.669.034)
Please contact me through PN if you have any of this.
Mike Holdstock
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Post by Mike Holdstock »

Thanks for getting the links, TB2, its so much easier when you know what the innards look like - and reading all the experiences.

So I will arm myself with big hammer and screwdriver tomorrow, and a drill with suitable bit(s)
Seems like everything gets much easier if the pin is ground out, I don't have proxxon but maybe a grinding bit on the end of the portable drill will wear it away.

Next question:
there seems like an awful lot of electrics around the barrel. I am hoping that shoving a screwdriver down it and engaging it with a possible slot will give me start and ignition without risking shorting things skywards.

[b]Does anyone have experience of starting the engine after having busted the lock?

Once again, many thanks to all. Now to the shed to collect the tools.

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
Mike Holdstock
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Post by Mike Holdstock »

Does anyone remember if the barrel of the ignition lock is the same as those on the doors?

Since its the same key it logically should be the same barrel.

In which case, if my memory seves me right, when the key lines up the tumblers correctly i.e. you can turn the key, that turning is passed on by a tongue at the back of the barrel to whatever needs moving.

Which could bode well for turning whatever is left of the lock with a smallish screwdriver.
Will take a collection of s/ds with me.

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
User avatar
jonathan_dyane
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:15 pm
Location: Liverpool

Post by jonathan_dyane »

No, I'm afraid the only common part between the ignition switch and the door lock is the key that operates them...
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski
Mike Holdstock
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Post by Mike Holdstock »

Jonathan
Thanks anyway !

Since I now have had all the other problems sorted for me, I suppose there has to be some challenge left - and the potential opportunity for me to contribute to the inexhaustible body of knowledge that this forum is :D

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
RxBX
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Post by RxBX »

Mike Holdstock wrote: Does anyone have experience of starting the engine after having busted the lock?
Hi Mike
Upon releasing the Lock/barrel you can then just see a small grub-screw at the lower edge of the lock/barrel before it connects to the 'Electrical Switch' part which is lower part of the barrel.
The little grub-screw can be seen just to the right of the persons thumb in this photo shot which also has the pins arrowed in red !

Image

When the grub-crew is removed (Please be aware that the grub-screw has a very small 'Torx' head fitting ) you can split the upper lock/barrel from the lower part (the switch) and then you can just work the ignition switch to start the car as normal with the central spindle (Which is moulded in a white nylon/plastic) the main static part of the switch is moulded in a BLACK plastic as shown in the following photo shot (The top barrel lock is the BX one the lower looks like it is for a ZX as they have the shorter lock/plunger):-

Image

BUT you MUST remember to return the switch centre spindle (the White bit) one notch back from the start position FAILURE to do this WILL cause the starter/solenoid to burn out and also could cause damage to the starter motor pinion and flywheel teeth and even possibly burn out part of the ignition wiring/loom.

Reason being for this is that return spring part to return the electrical switch one notch back is contained in the barrel/lock part which has now been disconnected !

So just remember to return the switch back one notch, just as you would normally if you where using a key and therefore you can get the car home or to a garage !

Also just a polite note, try to be gentle with the steering column outer barrel housing so as not to distort it or damage it in the area where the pin locates so as to eliminate possible difficulties when you come to fit a replacement barrel/lock.

Also please remember to disconnect the battery whilst you butchering out you old barrel/lock so as to eliminate the possibility of engaging the stater motor during this process, only reconnect when your ready to start the car so as to drive it away !

I hope this is of help to you.
Mike Holdstock
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Post by Mike Holdstock »

Thanks RxBX for the most recent details. Made it a lot easier to understand.
I woke up this morning realising that I HAVE a replacement barrel sitting in the GTi and attempted to remove it. Got the barrel out (here there were no pins at the "top" but a double pin/locking unit "under" the barrel)
but was brought to a halt by
how to disconnect all the cables ending up in the fuse box?
which I didn't have time to deal with and, using the strategy below, wont need to anyway.
I found that Thoxx grub screw, which I realised was smaller than the 10T I had, so left well alone to avoid burring with inappropriate tool.

The easiest method on the 14RE is now:
- disconnect earth cable from battery (done)
- grind off pin (mmm, sounds easy.
- extract barrel
- seperate upper and lower barrel (after acquiring small Thoxx)
- rebuild facia bits so driving possible
- reconnect battery earth
- operate switch for start and ignition (and remember to go back a click after starting)
- drive home
- rebuild with help of GTi parts.

Grinding off the pin is the challenge.

Thanks all, watch this space :)

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
Mike Holdstock
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Post by Mike Holdstock »

Thanks RxBX for the most recent details. Made it a lot easier to understand.
I woke up this morning realising that I HAVE a replacement barrel sitting in the GTi and attempted to remove it. Got the barrel out (here there were no pins at the "top" but a double pin/locking unit "under" the barrel)
but was brought to a halt by
how to disconnect all the cables ending up in the fuse box?
which I didn't have time to deal with and, using the strategy below, wont need to anyway.
I found that Thoxx grub screw, which I realised was smaller than the 10T I had, so left well alone to avoid burring with inappropriate tool.

The easiest method on the 14RE is now:
- disconnect earth cable from battery (done)
- grind off pin (mmm, sounds easy)
- extract barrel
- seperate upper and lower barrel (after acquiring small Thoxx)
- rebuild facia bits so driving possible
- reconnect battery earth
- operate switch for start and ignition (and remember to go back a click after starting)
- drive home
- rebuild with help of GTi parts.

Grinding off the pin is the challenge.

Thanks all, watch this space :) since I need to post pictures of the GTi barrel which appears to be non-standard.

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
RxBX
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Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:51 am
Location: DERBYSHIRE
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Post by RxBX »

Mike Holdstock wrote:but was brought to a halt by
how to disconnect all the cables ending up in the fuse box?
Mike !
Just follow the ignition leads down from the steering lock/barrel where they normally plug in to the main wiring harness which is in the right foot-well for UK spec.cars (probably on on the left hand foot well for Swedish L/H drive cars) and just behind the main heater box/outlet.
Usually it will be a brown or Black plug with four red wires going in to it and a white plug with four white wires going in to that one (As indeed you can see these said wires coming from the steering lock/barrel in the pictures above posts).
Also if your model has ABS fitted there's an additional Green fly-fire coming off one of the white wires.
I hope this is of help.
Mike Holdstock
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Post by Mike Holdstock »

We're in - sort of.

Lock removed, switch behind it exposed.

I have got the bar that goes into the steering column (steering column lock) out ie demobilised, but there is still something sitting in the housing which is making it difficult to pull cable through.

Anyway.

It is possible to turn the switch through 360 degrees, not the roughly 150 degrees between inserting key (S) and start (D) (between these a I , A, and M on the key seating).

Question is : if I connect the battery and the switch is in the wrong place am I likely to cause any major damage?

I think I know where S is, and consequentially ignition and start will be, but the above Bold question is worrying me.

Any comments most gratefully received. I a still in the empty car park but see a chance of getting home....in my own motor.

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
User avatar
jonathan_dyane
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Posts: 975
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:15 pm
Location: Liverpool

Post by jonathan_dyane »

Mike Holdstock wrote: if I connect the battery and the switch is in the wrong place am I likely to cause any major damage?


No, extremely unlikely. Touch the battery terminal on, and if you hear the starter operate, remove the lead, and turn back the remains of the ignition switch a shade, then try again.

If when you put the terminal on with the ignition on, there may be a slight spark due to circuits being energised, but the odds of anything being damaged are low.
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski
Mike Holdstock
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Post by Mike Holdstock »

Thanks for the encouragement, I think I'll give it a try
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
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