Occasionally heavy steering

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:32 am

One test that can be done easily on the pump:

Remove the belt and try to turn the pulley over by hand. You should feel the distinct resistance of each of the pistons in turn. 5 of them (certainly for the 16/19 petrol, I assume the Diesels are the same?), evenly spaced over one revolution (ie one every 72deg)

If you can feel less than 5 pistons in a revolution, and there's a very obvious "gap" between two, then you've got a siezed piston, which will seriously affect the flow output of the pump, but won't affect the pressure output.

I've known a pump to have 2 siezed and 3 working pistons before. Still raised the car just fine, but the PAS was awful. 1/4 turn of the steering and you'd run out of assistance.

The best s/h pumps to get hold of are those that have come from a non-PAS car, as they have done very little work in comparison. Rare as hen's teeth though...

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:37 am

Thanks David. That gives me something to work with. I'm off to a garage for the flush tomorrow, but I'll also check the pump and, as I've got a brand new spare pump belt, I might as well change that at the same time.

Linegeist · Post by **Linegeist** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:37 pm

After some research, I've answered my own question ..... how to replace a pump for less than the £200 they're asking on Ebay.

Pleiades - 01487 831239. Phil or Martin. (Donlt try and email - it doesnlt work)

Cost £137 + VAT (Plus an Acc sphere for warranty puposes)

I've just ordered one - it'll arrive Tuesday.

http://www.agua.nu/ds-files/tony-jackso ... eiades.pdf

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:57 pm

They're in your neck of the woods as well Ian, I did notice on their website that they can test your FDV, although that will probably not help with Scotland!

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:13 pm

Yup - they're practically on my doorstep. Really must make a visit at some point! I've got the flush fluid - not cheap is it? However, cheaper than replacing a major part of the system!

I'm heading to Bourne Citroen Centre to lob it in and check the pump tomorrow. If there's no joy after that, I'll visit the Playdays people.

Annoying that you have to replace the acc sphere if fitting a new pump. I've only just replaced it! (Well, actually, that was some 6000 miles ago now...)

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:19 pm

Is the accy sphere replaced because if they get low on pressure that puts a lot more strain on the pump?

With anyluck, they hydraflush will do its magic or at least improve things so that you can delay having to get a replacement pump, after checking out David's method of rotating it first.

Will piladeaeasy be able to diagnose the problem before you have to go to the expense of replacing parts which may not neceserrily be the problem?

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:32 pm

No idea, but I will try and visit them at some point - once I've got over the panic of trying to get at least one of my Citroens in a fit state to go travelling around Scotland (no, really!) on Thursday.

jonathan_dyane · Post by **jonathan_dyane** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:04 pm

It is, if the accumulator sphere is flat the pump is in operation for far longer than intended, which does tend to knacker it. The same happens if you have a fast 'tick' time due to internal leakage in the system.

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:19 pm

Interim report. Flush treatment now in, and we cleaned all the filters out while we were at it, and remove a nice quantity of sludge from the bottom of the reservoir.

Seemed better behaved on the way back home (a 30 mile drive) but we've had loads of snow again, so it's hard to be sure. New battery fitted as well as she needed the booster box to get going this morning...

Aerodynamica · Post by **Aerodynamica** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:26 pm

Dollywobbler wrote:Interim report. Flush treatment now in, and we cleaned all the filters out while we were at it, and remove a nice quantity of sludge from the bottom of the reservoir.

Seemed better behaved on the way back home (a 30 mile drive) but we've had loads of snow again, so it's hard to be sure. New battery fitted as well as she needed the booster box to get going this morning...

I hope that's been enough to cure it!

tbh, I wouldn't recommend the company mentioned - I have personally had nothing but trouble with their reconditioned products. The DIRAVI steering unit I fitted was ALMOST trouble free (apart from all the silver paint flaking off during installation

I agree with David's approach - I had a BX pump that was definitely down on a piston or two but the symptom was that the steering was 'pulsey' and the suspension a bit slow. Slapped in a new pump and it was TRANSFORMED! I have a spare HP pump if you need too.

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:30 pm

Thanks Graeme. Another pump is probably an idea. I'll bring some cash to Scotland with me...

jonathan_dyane · Post by **jonathan_dyane** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:20 pm

Do bear in mind that diesel and petrol hydraulic pumps are different...

I must say that I found some years ago that a car with a tired hydraulic pump had somewhat improved steering running on hydraflush, but as soon as I returned to LHM I found things back to square one. I put this down to the hydraflush being a different viscosity (somewhat lighter) and so easier for the pump to deal with. Old hydraulic pumps are always at their worst when it is cold, due to the LHM like all oils becoming 'thicker' in the cold, but usually improve somewhat if the car is driven some miles to the point at which the LHM becomes nice and warm...

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:23 pm

jonathan_dyane wrote:usually improve somewhat if the car is driven some miles to the point at which the LHM becomes nice and warm...

Such as (say) driving to Scotland? Glad it seems to be improved Ian, it's a scaryfeeling when you're heaving on the wheel trying to turn without assistance, and it suddenly comes back mid corner!

BX596 · Post by **BX596** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:44 am

Oh woe is me,looks like my pump has just gone too

Heavy steering,no brakes and a saggy arse(the car not me

)Ken,do you happen to know if the car in Pat's yard has one? BX ownership is,for the first time in 14 years,beginning to piss me off.If owt else goes wrong if I manage to get the pump sorted,it's going to the big car park in the sky

Dollywobbler · Post by **Dollywobbler** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:24 am

jonathan_dyane wrote: I must say that I found some years ago that a car with a tired hydraulic pump had somewhat improved steering running on hydraflush... I put this down to the hydraflush being a different viscosity (somewhat lighter) and so easier for the pump to deal with.

Ultimately, I think you're right Jonathan. As an interim solution, this is working well, but I think I'll opt to change the pump. This gets me out of a hole at the moment though, which is nice. If I use the BX that is. Still a silly plan in mind to use the 2CV - it'd be fine but for fumes in the heating system.