BX 17 TZD with worsening cooling system problems

[kiwi]

The coolant leak seems to be the return hose from the heater where it meets the flange/junction box. Barely accessible from the flange end, still haven't figured out where it meets the heater matrix, but that will be for the garage to find out!.

Ahh right now I understand. So basically what your saying is the coolant level got to low and then the yellow temperature warning light came on?

Which also means your coolant level warning light does not work?

[docchevron]

I think that sounds right!?
Either way, I suspect the HG is now FUBAR and I'd be amazed if the head wasn't rather banana shaped..

K-seal does seem to dtruggle with diesels, as for t'other stuff.. well, not used it so can't comment really, good luck with it, but I suspect it'll just be delaying the enevitable really..

[kiwi]

Dare I suggest parking it on the inside corner of a hill on a bus route

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Ic ... ticle.html

[andycadabra]

(also posted in its own thread on the forum) My local Latino garage and at last managed to partially remove perhaps one of the worlds most inaccessible hoses (the return from the heater radiator to the flange at the back of the engine). Seems like they now need me to supply a replacement hose.

When I last tried to get a similar one at the Citroen dealer it was going to take a week to get one sent from France, so I found a local motor accessory store that sold hose 'off the roll'. They fitted this that the high-pressure in the cooling system probably caused by a faulty head gasket blew a hole in it fairly quickly, and they fitted a bit of hose they had lying around, which worked.

I'm pretty sure I won't be able to get this hose at a main dealer without waiting a week for it, and the garage need to free up the space, but I hesitate to get more hose 'off the roll', unless it's better quality.

The last one did seem to be British made, so should have been up to the job, but it does seem to be a lot stiffer than the original hose they removed. The garage told me to get 'oil resist' hose - is that an option?.

Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

Kiwi - the red radiator level warning light has been dodgy for ages coming on and off at will so I've never taken it that seriously. According to the workshop manual the 'temperature warning switch operating temperature' is between 103 and 107°C, and the 'emergency temperature warning switch operating temperature' is 110 - 114°C.

I would guess that the Orange light would be indicating the lower of these two ranges, and one to the right, or at the top would be the emergency one, operating at the higher range, and might be red?

[MULLEY]

Are the original temp switches fitted? If you don't know perhaps they have been replaced with the wrong one's & so the warning lights are either coming on too early, or too late? I hope its the early one.

[andycadabra]

I don't think there's an issue with the warning lights, and I don't think they'd ever been changed. I think all the problems have been caused by pressure buildup in the cooling system, which is due to faulty head gasket, cracked block or warped head. 'Steel seal' claims to remedy all those problems 'or your money back'. so once the hose is fixed and the pressure taken off the cooling system by removing the injector or heating plug from the problem cylinder, we'll have to see..

[mat_fenwick]

Depending on which hose it is, I may have a leak free second hand spare after I replaced mine in October. Yours for the cost of postage. If you can post up a photo then I'll see what I have. I got a couple of hoses from eBay, from a French spares place up in Glasgow whose name I can't remember...

[kiwi]

Kiwi - the red radiator level warning light has been dodgy for ages coming on and off at will so I've never taken it that seriously. According to the workshop manual the 'temperature warning switch operating temperature' is between 103 and 107°C, and the 'emergency temperature warning switch operating temperature' is 110 - 114°C.

I would guess that the Orange light would be indicating the lower of these two ranges, and one to the right, or at the top would be the emergency one, operating at the higher range, and might be red?

I never took my low level light to seriously either, just kept topping it up when it did come on and replaced it and it still came on. Meaning a problem! But I did avoid boiling the coolant or hot air that you would be creating in the system when it got low.

Your aware that water boils at 100c but boils lower at a higher altitude! Which is probably why I never got to see the lights of death when my head gasket was on its way

Do you use an anti freeze coolant or just water?

Seriously though it is a design flaw to aloow warning lights to activate at 103c and certainly allow them to reach 114c

At least you have now acknowledged your HG and head is fubar!

[andycadabra]

Kiwi - I always knew there was probably a problem with the head gasket, cracked block or warped head. I was just wondering whether it was possible to tell which out of those is the problem,and the best way of rectifying it . the HG may be FUBAR but if I accepted the head to be FUBAR, I'd be going for a replacement engine.
because 'steel seal' claims to be able to rectify all of those problems (and not even stripping an engine down to change the head gasket would) I figured it was worth a try.
in answer to your question about antifreeze, I always make sure I get some in before any really cold weather. Seldom does it go below -5 here in London, so it doesn't have to be much of a concentration usually .

[andycadabra]

Finally, my garage got the car to the point where I could use the 'steel seal'. They couldn't seem to grasp the concept of relieving pressure on the cooling system by removing either the injector or the heating plug which, when removed, stops the bubbling, despite having given them instructions both in English and, to the best of my ability in Spanish!
I realised I had to be there when they did it, during which they protested it would be much better to have a new engine fitted, and that 'all the cylinders were causing bubbles'. In the process they managed to bugger up an injector in number 2 cylinder, breaking off the leak-off nipple by clumsy use of pliers.
They've connected number 1 injector's leak off pipe directly to number 3's - how satisfactory is this? Does anyone have a second-hand injector I could buy?
Finally we got to number 4 cylinder. The injector couldn't be shifted due to the fact that they seem to have applied glue to fix a small compression leak a year ago..I reminded him that the heating plug could come out instead, and after he did this the bubbling stopped, so we'd found the culprit..
Quite frankly I wished I'd gone and bought a 16mm deep socket and done it myself!
So with the car sounding like a pneumatic drill, I did the 'steel seal' treatment twice, and will do it once again tomorrow with the heating plug back in place, and hope for the best...

[kiwi]

in answer to your question about antifreeze, I always make sure I get some in before any really cold weather. Seldom does it go below -5 here in London, so it doesn't have to be much of a concentration usually .

Rumour has it it does not get very cold in New Zealand either well not the conditions where it stays below freezing for the entire day unless your up on a skiarea

I have heard this line so often from drivers who live in the warmer areas of the winterless areas (mainly Aucklanders) who believe because it does not get to cold they do not need a decent level on concentrate in the system. Anti Freeze is not just about stopping the water freezing it also acts like a coolant to keep the water temperature down.

Thats why I said Anti Freeze Coolant

[andycadabra]

Kiwi - I take your point!

The last time the engine started was for the 3rd treatment, with heating plug back in place. It wouldn't start even then but mechanic loosened then tightened the supply pipes to the injectors, and got it going.

After much hassle I had my old injector put a the new casing (mechanic broke the original one) but the car turns over but still refuses to start. He says it's not a fuel supply fault, because there's fuel at the injectors, so that presumably means that neither the stop solenoid or the injection pump would be the problem?. This mechanic seems a bit clueless as to what it could be - ' if it won't start throw it to the rubbish' may be the best he can do...

anyone have any ideas? in 8 years, I've never had any starting problems with it before now.

[mat_fenwick]

anyone have any ideas?

New engine? Sorry Andy, couldn't resist...

The heater plugs have been out haven't they? Have they been connected up again?
Cambelt hasn't been touched has it? (I'm thinking injection timing).
There's a small possibility of a lack of compression if the repair hasn't been successful, but I'd expect it to start in the end. If the compression really was that bad to stop it starting, it would sound odd whilst cranking.

[andycadabra]

Hi Mat - new engine?, probably right! yes, the heating plug was taken out on the one cylinder that was responsible for the bubbling, while doing the first 2 treatments with steel seal.
if it were a compression problem, it must have got a lot worse quite suddenly because it started before, also surely it wouldn't have affected more than one cylinder, and allowed it to run on the other 3?

[mat_fenwick]

Exactly, I think it's very unlikely to be compression, and also unlikely to be the heater plugs if only one has been disturbed. Unless it's the one where the main feed is (should be?) attached.