Running Regulator

[Tim Leech]

The GT regulator "runs" all the time when the car is on tickover (900rpm) but cuts out as soon as the revs go above 1000rpm, otherwise the suspension is fine. The accu sphere seems fine as she stays up for hours and with the engine off will still raise the suspension when the lever is moved.

The TZI has a similar problem but the rear end drops within an hour and takes a while to lift off the floor when starting from cold and the STOP lamp is on for a few seconds.

Any thoughts, weak pump?

Both cars have fresh LHM.

[corni6580]

Mine does what your TZi is too.

The girlfriends brother used to own a couple of hydro'd citroens, he seems to think it's the accumulator sphere.

I had a look under the sphere and the 3 pipes under there have Mr Spocks blood on them, so I thought it was a simple tightening job.

However! They're all too close together, and to other things, to tighten them up so they're still leaking! Think they never got tightened properly during the rebuild. Doh!

Can't visualise what else was in the way but i remember the rad coming out when i was last in there.

Hope this helps.

[Tim Leech]

Thanks Rob,

I will put a new accu sphere on the TZi as I havent changed it yet and stick some fresh LHM in her too, I dont know when it was changed but appears to be clean but even so its worth doing it.

[Linegeist]

My Athena's regulator does exactly this and, after a lot of head scratching and elimination (replaced all the spheres when I got the car last year) I'm replacing the HP pump as soon as the weather clears up.

My logic is that the car's definitely been clocked - it reads 65,000 miles on the odometer (which has digits that are squiffier than my cat after nicking my beer - underbody linkages are well worn - steel throttle pedal's almost worn through - rear arm bearings totally shot to pieces (now replaced)).

I suspect nobody in their right mind's going to go to the bother of taking out the dash just to knock a couple of hundred miles off a motor .......... so I reckon my Athena's done 165,000 miles at least - possibly more.

Therefore, the pump's going to be bloody tired and the pistons are going to have a lot of 'blowby'. Spinning the pump faster would help overcome the internal leakages, and this is exactly what happens. Leaving the car on slowish idle in the mornings results in a rise time of several minutes - raising the idle speed to 2k more than halves this - ergo, in the absence of significant leakback at the reservoir, it's the pump that's worn/shagged out/buggered.

Interestingly, in the currently cold weather, the pump's a lot quieter, and more efficient, first thing (because the LHM's more viscous) and the infernal ticking's not an issue when cold. As soon as the car's been used a while, and the LHM's warmed through (and thins out) the symptoms return.

Hopefully, as soon as I get the replacement pump installed, I'll be able to do the smug bastard thing, - but this isn't going to happen while there's still snow on the ground, even if I HAVE got a workshop! I'm nearly a bloody pensioner - and if nothing else, my bladder'll probably let go before I even get the bonnet raised. One leak's enough at my age.

[Tim Leech]

The TZi is about 20 miles of 90k, with some history to prove but I will try the accu sphere first as its a cheap fix and see how that goes. As for the clocking I wouldnt be so sure, my 16TRS has only 42k on the clock with a FSH to prove yet that has a few creaks and bangs from the front end, probably down to old age and lack of use more than anything else with the rubber bits deterioriating, I intend to fit new drop links and track rods this spring. Ive know alot of BX to have uneven numbers on the odometer even at genuine low mileages as they are not the best quality item, normally a few sharp taps on the top of the binnacle whilst driving will help them line up as they seem to stick.

The GT is on 52k but has had the pump replaced with a pleides one (the stickers still attached) but then again shes 25 years old this year.

[docchevron]

When you say the regulator "runs" all the time, do you mean the pump is supplying pressure all the time, or is it the regulator "hissing"?
If it's just hissing, then it's the return side in which case there may be nothing wrong at all as such, many cars do exactley that.

[Tim Leech]

When you say the regulator "runs" all the time, do you mean the pump is supplying pressure all the time, or is it the regulator "hissing"?
If it's just hissing, then it's the return side in which case there may be nothing wrong at all as such, many cars do exactley that.

Yes its hissing all the time mate. But soon stops as soon as the revs rise.

[docchevron]

Ahh, thats been well talked about on here before.

IIRC Aerodynamica came up with a good explanation as to why it does, but in short the hiss is fluid being returned, my TD does it, and always has, whereas the valver doesn't.
But I've heard lots that have, and have done so for years without any problems..

[citronut]

are the tank filters clean,

also the sinking rear end is usualy due to the dozer valve, as the rear suspension returns via this, so when they get old the seals cant keep up the presure,

the other thing to check is the pump drive belt FT tight,

regards malcolm

[MULLEY]

Tim, you mention that the lhm appears clean. I've found that the only way of telling how dirty it is, is to remove the lhm from the tank & clean the tank out. If you've not got any history of lhm changes, then i bet its old & filthy. I could of course be wrong, but there's only one sure fire way of telling the condition.

[ken newbold]

It's a common XM feature. Welcome to the club

[Aerodynamica]

I know the thing you mean: it's a hisss that's quite quiet and the regulator never reaches the 'click' unless you raise the revs (or put a bit of pressure on the steering wheel) (or! if it's not doing the hiss I bet that at idle by pressing the brake once or twice it starts the hiss again!)

It is the FDV - I tightened the HP pump belt on mine, changed the LHM, filters, suction pipe, accumulator. it still did this, took off the FDV valve like Doc says and stripped it down - filters were clogged but no real probs noted. Refitted and it STILL did the constant hiss.

i then sourced a NOS HP pump from Mark at the Lincoln Citroen dealer because I reckoned that the pump output was too low due to age and was not delivering enough pressure to deal with the FDV and regulator (seemed logical?) so I fitted this new pump, very tight belt, checked the idle speed and yet still the problem persisted!!

It had however, improved a lot - now it was sometimes stopping hissing without revs - it would stop just at idle but took ages.

I must admit I never got to the bottom of this before selling my beloved BX but I am still certain it's the FDV - actually think it's caused by the FDV springs getting tired and the balance of it being off. It might also be leaking through at some part.

The FDV has something like 5 phases of operation - one of them is where LHM is being fed to the FDV by the pump and fed by the return of the regulator. Other phases are when the regulater changes to cut in while the PAS is inactive and by deduction alone I think this is the 'Hiss' phase but still can't confirm.

Also!! I think there was some agreement that the petrol engined BXs seemed to be the ones that suffered this characteristic whereas the diesels all seem to make a short hiss then click. It's like the 'hiss phase' puts some load on the pump that the petrol cars cant cope with at idle.

So after all that^ I reckon it's just a bit of the balance of the FDV lost through age and it's not a problem as such as no doubt everything still works.

Btw, don't waste your money on a new accumulator unless you really need on as it will not stop this constant hiss thing!

[Tim Leech]

Thanks guys, I will change the LHM and accu sphere on the TZI as I dont know when they were last done.

As for the GT the belt is tight and never squeals where as the TZI was awful until RXBX tightened it up, the accu sphere and LHM have both done less than 2000miles and are a couple of years old (GT)

[Linegeist]

Pleiades came up with the goods yesterday and I swapped out the shagged hydraulic pump and accumulator sphere this morning (PM'd you Tim, with a write-up for the CCC mag if you're interested) and the difference in the car is rather pronounced.

The previously tired Athena now positively leaps to attention when started up, and that bloody buzzing from the regulator has stopped at last - not to mention the clatter from the knackered old pump that has has finally ceased! The car was starting to sound like a castanet fanatic with parkinson's.

So - a nice new pump and a nice long tick-time have made me a happy chappy.

[mat_fenwick]

sound like a castanet fanatic with parkinson's.

Like it! Another good one I heard was rattling like an epileptic blind man stuck in a steel stairwell...