Nice squidgy suspension spheres...............

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MULLEY
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Post by MULLEY »

Could it possibly be that the diesels are a bit heavier at the front end than the petrols? Thats why you've experience the bottoming out?

Interesting that you've tried the spheres in that configuration David.

I'd really love nice soft suspension, but without hitting any bump stops, Sheffields roads since the arctic conditions have gotten even worse, the roads have just broken up, there are loads of potholes & its almost impossible to avoid some of them, poor bloody car :x
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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica »

I'm not sure I agree with the notion of sourcing damper holes as large as possible! How large do you want to go there? There's a very fine line between altering the damper effect and retaining the safe response of the suspension and knocking it right off the scale!

Fitting off spec. sphere pressures/damper ports/ volumes etc. might seem like you're making a BX float like a 50s DS but you'll soon find that the other components are not designed to run with this spring/damper range! And of course, like I said; it may seem sensational when you've just modified it all and it seems like you've got it right but as soon as you're carrying 3 passengers and stuff in the boot you'll enter the realm of MAD suspension where it's underdamped and wallowing like a basterd.

I wouldn't recommend fitting front (55bar) spheres on the rear because the pressure is too high and the damper is too weak (for the rear ratio of LHM displacement versus upwards hub travel). Hitting the bump stops is NOT the thing to aim for!

The trouble here is that the BX seems to generate a sense of disappointment where the ride sensation begins to feel mush more 'normal' through use. I spent weeks on my first car, a BX 14E, tring to cure what I though twas 'stickiness' n the struts - it was not stickiness - I'd just gotten too used to the ride.

My recommendation to anyone doubting the BX's ride sensations is to drive some modern 3door hatch thingy for a week and then go back to your BX and you'll notice how plush it feels.

Spheres and stuff aside - it's the set up of the BX's suspension parts that gives it's less 'DS-like' ride. Take for the example that the BX14E uses the self same spheres as the GS/GSA. Same size, damper and pressure and yet both cars feel totally different! Why is that? it's because the ratio of LHM movement to the displacement of the wheel hum, up and down is different and that the cars have different weight, power, weight of wheels and hubs and different anti roll bar diameters and moment arm(distance between the connection of the arm to the anti roll bar) to each other. different ride - same spheres.

Just slap on the BX petrol fronts in the 500cc size and you're good.
Could it possibly be that the diesels are a bit heavier at the front end than the petrols? Thats why you've experience the bottoming out?
Diesels are heavier over the front axle and additionally, with that you'll get more inertia too. But funnily Citroën chose to use spheres of the same pressure but firmed up the damper on the Turbo Ds. Cos don't forget, the beauty of the hydro suspension is that with increases in mass and hence pressure of the LHM holding it up, the gas in the sphere gets compressed further which increases the spring rate. If you choose a higher pressure sphere to start with (i.e. higher than the normal 55bar for the front) then you'll have softer springs for the same weight. Potentially this would be even more appropriate to the diesel at say, 60bar but you still have to have them 'gassed' to this pressure by a refilling place as the next available 'off the shelf' sphere of the 500cc size is the CX front and it's 75bar - I'd wager, too high a rest pressure.

O kok, I've gone on again... there are so many myths to address with spheres/ damper holes.
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maxgreenwood
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Post by maxgreenwood »

Aerodynamica your info is very interesting.

I have 16/19 saloon spheres on the front of the BXTD and they work well, not sure about the back i think i asked for soft when they were done. Other TZDs i've been in are much flatter round bends than mine but still supple. I like rolling round corners and having to kinda steer the car into a corner before you're on it, a bit like a boat. Soft suspension improves your racing line!

I have Comfort spheres on the XM which are great, but its a heavy car and i have to be careful over some speed bumps.

I read on the XM forum about someone fitting an XM center sphere to the strut and getting very floaty soft suspension on that corner. Probably too high a pressure for the BX though, not sure. The centre ones on an XM are what are responsible for softness in 'soft-mode' When driving vigourously they are isolated from the hydraulic circuit so when rolling/accelerating/braking the car is only acting on the corner ones which have less travel or something like that.
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Post by BX Bandit »

I wouldn't of said it so technically nor so fluently, but Graeme's post makes sense. At least, from the (little) messing around I've done with spheres on the BX it makes sense.

I've tried 2mm bores (fronts) and they were too big, I didn't even take the car out on the road.

400cc 1.8s were just ok on a TD, maybe a 500cc 1.8 would be too under damped but I've not tried it.

Same spheres on the 16v sit better and is as soft as I'd go, although it does feel a little unsure on spots where the originals didn't let up, not that I drive hard/fast anyway.

I've not messed with rear spheres at all.
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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica »

I read on the XM forum about someone fitting an XM center sphere to the strut and getting very floaty soft suspension on that corner
:shock: Er, I thought Hydractive centre spheres had no damper at all!?!? The damper valves for these are within the 'firmness regulator' that it's attached to.

If so you really would get a floaty ride on one corner - to death!

I think you'd like my CX - it rolls like a trawler on high seas on pronounced bends! It's awful!! Yet somehow awesome... 8)
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