BX 17TD engine into the GT- Good or bad idea?

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adamskibx
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BX 17TD engine into the GT- Good or bad idea?

Post by adamskibx » Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:56 am

Ive spotted a pretty battered up 17TD estate on ebay with some LHM leaks and a minor oil leak, as well as a worn clutch, and thought, well, the engine would be OK for my GT with a knackered engine. Id have GT performance and deisel economy, but, is it too risky considering the engine has done 178,000 miles? Obviously id replace the clutch which would be easy with the engine and box out anyway, and all the necessary parts should be there between the two cars. What do you guys think? The car is in Slough and still has some MOT left and good tyres. All the bits I would just give away to whoever could collect. At least with this, I could drive the car to where mine is, swap the engines and also have a few spares in case mine fails the MOT on something else. The only other concern is insurance, and registration doc information- What on earth do you do?

Regards, Adam

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:43 am

Since your going from a 1.8petrol to a 1.8diesel or there abouts, changing the details on the V5 is dead easy. Fill in the changes (engine number, fuel type (Heavy Oil) and capacity and send it back. It's free to do as well!

Infact changing engines on the V5 is only a problem if your sticking in a small engine which falls into a different tax band (ie stuck a 1.5d into a BX for example).

However, insurance is NOT so easy! Insurers will see it as a 'performance upgrade' and sting you accordingly! Never tell them its an engine from a plush model! in fact tell them its from a Visa diesel and it should be cheap as chips, they do it based on the insurance cost for the original car and the insurance cost for the donor, which im convinced they simply add together!

If you never plan on making a claim then speak to HIC (herts insurance company), you'll instantly realise there all on commision and dont actually care if you have a crash, but they ARE super cheap, setting up the policy is quick and painless and if you want to change something then its very quick! If you never take it near a university campus, and dont tell them your a student then try Adrian Flux, not as cheap but much more reputable!

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mat_fenwick
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Post by mat_fenwick » Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:05 am

I would if I were you as it's a cracking engine - I wouldn't be too worried about the mileage as I've seen plenty that have done over 200,000 miles. Buying a donor car is definately the way to go as you suggest.

Good luck!

tim leech

Post by tim leech » Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:27 am

Or would it be easier to fix the estate car?

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:01 am

TD intoGTI is fairly straightforward, especially as you have a complete TD to get the bits from, it would make a good car too.
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ken newbold
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Post by ken newbold » Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:02 am

Do your car a favour, fit a 19 petrol engine, there was one in a car on here going for free.

Your car will soon become a classic, with a diesel engine in it won't. If you want a TD BX buy one, they're cheap enough and plentyfull.
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Post by jeremy » Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:02 am

The TD will be a totally different driving experience from a 1.6 petrol as you have to contend with turbolag as well as a very low rev limit.

The TD engine doesn't take kindly to being neglected and as well as HG failure can suffer from head cracking. I mention this as it looks as though the car you are interested in may well have been driven into the ground and not have had the oil changed regularily etc. They can go on for high mileages - my ownhas just turned 200,000 which may be genuine but at about 170,000 I had the HG fail and it was found that the head was cracked. (It didn't overheat - just burnt through between 2 cylinders 18 miles after new injectors were fitted!)

TD's have an enormous radiator which may be necessary in UK. Otherwise I'd have thought the change-over was simple - engine/gearbox, TD driveshafts (may be problems if it has ABS - are hubs the same - probably yes), anti-roll bars both ends (estates are different again - sizes quoted in haynes) and some hydraulic plumbing at the front and of course the correct spheres. When thats done you have a TD to standard spec. (Assuming your 1.6 has power steering - you'll need it)

In fact BX are remarkably interchangeable interchangeable - like using the same brake pads for all including 16 valve.

As for insurance - I'd have thought there wouldn't be any problem insuring it as a TD - as this is a standard model - if you have done the job fully.

jeremy

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DavidRutherford
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Post by DavidRutherford » Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:55 am

Except.....

Adamski's model is an early Mk1 GT, and there weren't any TD models around until 1988, so most insurance companies will simply say NO.

Whilst you and I and everyone else knows that it would be no more of a risk than any other BX, and that in actual fact, having gone to the lengths of an engine swap, will actually take MORE care of it than many people, insurance companies are stupid.

Well, actually, they aren't stupid, it's just that they base risk on individual models, which in my mind is utter idiocy. How am I more dangerous driving one car over any other? How is it that my modified "would-destroy-any-car" landrover Forward control costs under £100 to insure for the year, and yet my standard "fairly-flimsy-euro-box" 405 TD costs over £200??

Even more silly is that if I modify a BX, it's going to cost more to insure, yet if I build my own kit car, it costs very little to insure.....

Insurance is a bastard.
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Post by Kitch » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:34 pm

Agreed with Ken. A GT is a rare example, don't cover it in snot by diseasling it.

Personally I can't get my head around the logic of removing a petrol engine and fitting a diesel one in general.

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Post by tom » Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:40 pm

Economy, durability,Torque, fire safety, easier servicing, Continental touring range. No, no point at all :)

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Post by Ian_Fearn » Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:51 pm

Please PLEASE PLESE dont put a diesel into the GT.

Its such a rare car, when was the last time anybody saw one?

Surely if you really want a diesel then the best option and cheapest would be to buy a diesel and sell the GT to somebody who will cherish it.

I can think of at least 2 people who would love to buy it!
Over and out from me

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DavidRutherford
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Post by DavidRutherford » Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:19 pm

Ian_Fearn wrote:Its such a rare car, when was the last time anybody saw one?
... On my driveway, about 5 minutes ago!

In all seriousness, yes, I am beginning to agree with you...

I was considering putting a 1.9TD engine into my GT digit, but am fast thinking that woudn't be such a great idea.

In fact, I'm fast thinking that the GT digit may have to go. Not because I don't like it, or because it's *that* bad, but simply because I doubt I'll have time to do anything with it in the meantime...

Ian... Might either of these 2 people be interested in a GT with a Digit dashboard?
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adamskibx
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Post by adamskibx » Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:02 pm

Right. Thanks for the advice guys. Yes its a rare model, and is currently a rare model that doesnt move, so a deisel engine would "save it" in my opinion, but I take the advice on originality on board. Also, yes I could just go out and buy a cheap TZD, but, I do love this car in particular, because its a MK1 and has a MK1 dash, and it doesnt matter too much to me what gets it moving. Yes its original at the moment, but so are piles of rust in the crapheap:-) No, seriously though, as im going to the effort of actually changing the engine, I think I will try and get a petrol one in, partly for originality, but mostly because of the insurance problems Vanny has mentioned above. So yep, ill leave this estate alone and keep a look out for some knackered TRS's instead.

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Post by Kitch » Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:01 pm

tom wrote:Economy, durability,Torque, fire safety, easier servicing, Continental touring range. No, no point at all :)
I didn't mean what are the advantages of a diesel engine in general. I'm confused as to why people transplant an engine and all the gubbins when there are plenty of diesel BX's on offer weekly.

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Post by Kitch » Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:02 pm

adamskibx wrote:Right. Thanks for the advice guys. Yes its a rare model, and is currently a rare model that doesnt move, so a deisel engine would "save it" in my opinion, but I take the advice on originality on board. Also, yes I could just go out and buy a cheap TZD, but, I do love this car in particular, because its a MK1 and has a MK1 dash, and it doesnt matter too much to me what gets it moving. Yes its original at the moment, but so are piles of rust in the crapheap:-) No, seriously though, as im going to the effort of actually changing the engine, I think I will try and get a petrol one in, partly for originality, but mostly because of the insurance problems Vanny has mentioned above. So yep, ill leave this estate alone and keep a look out for some knackered TRS's instead.
If it helps I know someone who is breaking a GTi. I'm sure the engine could be run on the carb setup you have and just change the actual block/head etc. Its only done about 77k.