Welding, can anyone help?

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MULLEY
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Welding, can anyone help?

Post by MULLEY »

I need both inner wings welding on my TXD, the usual place tbh, ever since i've had the car i've done my best to keep it at bay, but it's now beaten me :cry:

If anyone is able to help, i'm willing to travel & of course come to a suitable financial or alternative item arrangement.
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
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1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
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mat_fenwick
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Post by mat_fenwick »

How about putting up some photos so potential helpers can see what they're letting themselves in for?
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Vanny
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Post by Vanny »

Because it will be 10 times worse than it looks;

Mine started like this;

Image

And ended up like this;

Image

Image

If you have the space/spare car then i'd seriously consider buying a welder and start stripping down the car. Certainly the hardest part is stripping back so perhaps you could investigate a local 'mobile welder' and see how much they would charge if you where to do the stripping back?
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MULLEY
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2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Post by MULLEY »

I'll take some photo's & post them up, good idea mat. Vanny, you're probably right about how bad they are, initially they didn't look too bad, but i think its very thin in places, you could easily put your finger through even though it doesnt look too bad. Hopefully the piccies may show what's involved.

The Gti i sold last year appeared to be in a much worse state that my txd, but i can't afford to spend that sort of money again :cry:

Cheers for the advice so far.
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
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ken newbold
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Post by ken newbold »

You could try sending BXC member "its2goodtobreak" a PM, he does welding on BX's from time to time. :wink:
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Post by Defender110 »

Mulley

As a fully qualified welder I would be willing to weld your car for you (if realistickly doe-able) but I am over in Bolton & could only do it if the car was left with me simply because of what has already been mentioned here.

Anywhere steel has been allowed to rot through it is ALWAYS ALWAYS considerably worse than it initialy looks and takes a lot more time and effort to do properly than you would imagine.

When I used to weld for a living I had a policy of never welding for anyone who uses the classic statement 'it just needs a quick tack' If they say that they obviously haven't a clue as to what the job entails and think they should just be able to wait with the car for ten minuits whilst the job is done and would only feel ripped off or conned when you do a propper job for them.
There is a reason there are Quick fit centres for car tyres and exhausts but never for car welding. I am also not a supporter of the 'buy your own welder' option. DIY welding can be disastrous and I'm afraid I have seen to many jobs that DIY welders have been pleased with that had zero structural strength.
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Post by ken newbold »

Ditto, just what he /\ said.
I have a mig welder, but having seen how much work there was to do on the black auto we used to have and how much effort my mate put into getting it right, I wouldn't even dream of tackling the job. :(

What started out as a small hole, ended up just like Vanny's by the time we got back to good metal. :(
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MULLEY
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2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Post by MULLEY »

I must admit that it would be great to learn how to weld, as long term it would save a fortune. Trouble is the startup costs, so i'm probably never going to learn tbh.

Kevan, thanks for your kind offer, i'll post some piccies to see what you all think & i'll pm you if i decide to take up your offer. I'll probably get some local quotes in the meantime to get an idea of price.

The last chap who welded the Gti, i did offer to do some prep to reduce the price, but he just said it wouldnt really make any difference. I presume he wanted to ensure that he did it to ensure he was taking out all the rusted metalwork. Or the cynical thinking was that he did a bodge-job & that to my untrained eye i'd be none the wiser. No idea tbh. Cost me £150 to get both sides done, is that a reasonable price?
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
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Post by Defender110 »

Youv've hit the nail on the head there Mulley, It is Critical all the severely rusted metal is cut out and not just plated over. Not a nice comparison but unfortunately rust is like a car cancer , if you leave it in there it will spread and catching it early gives the best chance of survival
It is also critical once the repair is complete it is treated / sealed properly. Freshly welded steel will re-rust ten times quicker than before as any previous treatments or remaining protection from the elements it had have been totally eliminated.

It's impossible to say what a reasonable price is with welding work without knowing how bad the rust was, as previously stated it can unfortunatly be quite labour intensive.
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Post by mat_fenwick »

(Just to echo the comments above) what started out as a 'couple of small patches' on the inner wings of the Disco last December turned into 3 days of cutting out (used 7 cutting discs!), grinding back, making repair panels, welding and sealing/painting.
I actually enjoy the welding, but I hate with a passion the prep work.
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Post by Philip Chidlow »

Can I add that Kermit did a fantastic job on my GTi but we were both quite surprised as to how far and how much cutting out of the 'bad' metal was needed to make a good job. And the finishing was extensive too with plenty of various gloops applied post welding.
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Post by DavidRutherford »

I think everything that needs to be said about welding on a car already has been, but I'll echo the above comments that welding on a car has very little to do with welding, and an awful lot to do with component removal, cutting back of corroded metal, fabrication or repair panels, ensuring a good fit, removal of paint/underseal etc. The actual welding takes less than 5% of the total repair time.

The rule of thumb I use is that corrosion will always extend at least another 6" further up the seams that you can see, thus even the smallest spot of corrosion in a seam means at least a foot of corrosion.

Mulley, the £150 to get both inner wings repaired that you've quoted seems quite reasonable actually, assuming a decent job was done. To do an inner wing properly on the BX means removal of the outer wing and wheelarch liner, serious cutting out of the corroded seam, and usually two repair panels welding in (one to repair the vertical panel, and one to repair the curved panel). It's at least 2 hours work, so for 4 hrs work, £150 seems not bad.
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MULLEY
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2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Post by MULLEY »

Cheers for that David, i must admit i've got no idea how good a job he did. I don't own the car anymore, otherwise i'd post up some piccies of the work done for comments.

Rust, Rust & more Rust, its all sounding gloomy :cry:

I'll get some piccies posted tonight.

Cheers for all the insight chaps.
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
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MULLEY
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My Cars: 1999 Xsara LX 2.0HDI (90) Hatch - Fern
2002 C5 2.0 HDI (110) Estate - Jasmine - SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Post by MULLEY »

Piccies of the inner wings, what does anyone think?

Image

Image

Image
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
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Post by DavidRutherford »

That's quite a hefty amount of seam corrosion in the nearside inner wing. The offside isn't as bad, possibly 8"-10" of corrosion. The nearside I suspect will have a good 12"-14" of corrosion and will be a more complex repair (to do it properly)

That said, you may well have caught it early, so it'll only be the seam rather than extensive panel corrosion. No way to tell for sure until it's all pulled apart and the seam sealant all removed.
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