Replacing a Water Pump --- Important questions

[Turboalternator]

Hallo everyone,

I need a little help! or shall I say a lot!

I suspect that the cold weather has caused a major problem to my car: (D2A Engine by the way).

There is a coolant leak from the Water Pump, (WP), area and I've checked and it's not the WP feed hose or either of the matrix feed/return hoses either. (Or the blanks in the WP area). I've check all the other coolant hoses and unions as well -- all dry.

I think that it is probably due to a cracked water pump housing or that its gasket has perished due to the coolant freezing.

I hope, with all my heart, that it is not the engine block.

I did the tests as suggested by Citronut, (Malcom)/Matt Fenwick in this post:

http://www.bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic ... water+pump

I am happy to say that it passed the "Citronut/Fenwick" test. (I hope that that means that my engine block is OK).

Anyway now for my problem:

1. I need to replace the water pump and I am really worried as this means that I will have to remove/refit the timing belt. As everyone knows, there is very little room between the driver's side, (O/S), front wheel arch and the side of the engine/timing belt area.

2. What is really worrying is that there is very little room to work with normal tools and the main problem is the side engine mounting which is in the ruddy way. It is difficult to see underneath this side engine mounting, (this is the mounting which bolts to the triangular engine mounting), and that is where the critical adjustments to the belt tensioner need to be done, (as I see things that is). Clearly, I need to see what I'm doing to adjust the tensioner when refitting the belt.

3. I can see that the triangular mounting can, possibly, be removed easily but, as already described, it is the side engine mounting that is the headache. There is one bolt in particular, on that side mounting, that seems to be impossible to get out unless the engine is out.

Just so that everyone is aware of what I am talking about: The "triangular mounting" can be seen in Fig 8.15 on page 2B.10 of the Haynes Manual, (blue book) and the "side engine mounting" can be seen in Fig 8.32, page 2B.12 and again in Fig 6.7 on page 2B.7.

Ironically, Haynes states that the belt removal can be done with the engine in-situ but, clearly, (judging by their photos), they did what they did with the engine out!

OK, so here are my list of questions, (also covering some of the instructions given in the Haynes manual).

A. Pulley removal .. I can't see at the moment because everything is in the way ... but is it necessary to remove the starter engine to get access to the starter ring gear?

B. Can someone please confirm that the pulley is mounted to the crankshft with a single key slot. Or is it on splines? I am worried that if I remove it and if it is on splines then if the crankshaft moves, (accidently or for one reason or another), I could replace it wrongly. If on splines is there a way to mark it with a scratch, (like one does a distributor), so that the pulley is replaced correctly with respect to the crankshaft?

C. Can the engine side mounting be removed with the engine in-situ? can someone give a proceedure -- (For example: I am sure that the engine will drop/move -- then getting the side mounting back on again will be a nightmare).

D. How much working under the car is involved?

E. Is there a way to see what one's doing with respect to belt tension adjustment with that engine side support in place? Am I missing something really obvious?

F. There may already be a post detailing all of this - can someone please give me a link if there is?

G. And the most obvious question: Can the water pump be replaced with the engine in-situ?

H. If anyone, (expert at doing this), living near North London upto about 40 miles can help me with the actual work I can spare about £10 -15/hour ... any takers?


Best wishes to all and thanks in advance if you post!

[mat_fenwick]

Here is a photo of the timing belt end of the engine.


A. You can get a junior hacksaw frame (or better - an allen key of the correct size to avoid play) into the timing hole to lock the flywheel, but it's easier to remove the starter especially if it's your first time so you can see what you are doing.
B. Crankshaft pulley has a single woodruff key.
C. Engine can be supported with a trolley jack with a piece of wood between sump and jack. I've never taken off the side mount bracket with the engine in situ but sure it will be possible although not necessary. The jack can be used to move the engine up and down where appropriate to improve access.
D. It's mostly working inside the wheelarch with the plastic cover removed.
E. Mostly by feel...
F.

[KevR]

I did mine a few months back, and I've got to do the one on the other car imminently. It's very fiddly, but not really any worse than a normal timing belt change. As far as I remember I removed the top engine mounting, removed the bottom mounting bolt, and as Mat says, used a jack to move the engine up and down slightly where necessary – even a few mm more of access made a difference. Didn't remove the starter - used a bit of bent steel rod in the locking hole – hard to find it but it IS there! Do youself a favour and give it all a good clean/jetwach under there before you start!

[Oscar]

Honestly, it is easier to undo the starter motor and move it out of the way in order to get your allen key/hacksaw frame to lock the flywheel up. I spent an hour trying to do it with starter motor in situ, then 5 minutes once I'd spent another 10 minutes moving the motor. I am sure there are those who can do it really easily, but I don't do it that often and lack practise.

[Oscar]

Oh, and you might as well change the pulleys and timing belt while you're at it, unless you are convinced that they don't need changing. It's fiddly, but not terribly demanding if you are patient and methodical. Let us know how you get on.

[Defender110]

Honestly, it is easier to undo the starter motor and move it out of the way in order to get your allen key/hacksaw frame to lock the flywheel up. I spent an hour trying to do it with starter motor in situ, then 5 minutes once I'd spent another 10 minutes moving the motor. I am sure there are those who can do it really easily, but I don't do it that often and lack practise.

It's also a doddle to put the timing pin / mini hacksaw frame straight in from underneath with the hole in full view whilst turning the crankshaft with ratchet and socket!

(the usual don't get underneath an unpropped car safety rules apply)

[Turboalternator]

Hallo Everyone!

Thanks for your input!

Matt .. thanks for the photo it is very useful. My car's petrol driven and so I don't have the extra cog which I presume must drive the injection metering unit. The water pump is clear to see so at least one knows where it's roughly located. Thanks also for answering A through to F!

Kev.. I didn't quite understand. You took off the top engine mounting and the bottom mounting bolt .. on both sides of the car? What about the engine side mounting support.. Did you manage to get that off?

What I meant to ask is: if I take off the top engine mounting will the engine drop? If not .. can I then get access, (without lifting the engine), to all the bolts on the side mounting to get that off?

Oscar .. The pulleys?? (Is one of the pulleys the crankshaft pulley?) Does one need to change those too? Don't know if they are still available.. or did you mean the tensioner "Pulley" and belt?

All the best guys!

[Turboalternator]

Hallo again!

Re: Matt's/Defender's reply ..

Where is this hole for the allen key/junior hacksaw .. is it by the ignition timing angle indicator? See page 5A.5 fig 8.2. (Haynes Manual Blue Book).

How do you get to it from underneath?

Anyone got a pic? or a good verbal description of exactly where it is?

[mat_fenwick]

Apologies, I had mistakenly assumed you had a diesel, despite you saying otherwise in your post! Been a while since I've done one on a petrol XU so I'll have to bow out unless my memory returns!

[Defender110]

Me too sorry, I thought we were talking diesel aswell.

[KevR]

And me...

[mat_fenwick]

Doesn't help when the first person to reply sticks up a photo of a diesel engine!

[mat_fenwick]

There's a few points that I can answer...

Kev.. I didn't quite understand. You took off the top engine mounting and the bottom mounting bolt .. on both sides of the car? What about the engine side mounting support.. Did you manage to get that off?
What I meant to ask is: if I take off the top engine mounting will the engine drop? If not .. can I then get access, (without lifting the engine), to all the bolts on the side mounting to get that off?

Yes, the engine will drop somewhat, but not out of the car! If you use the method suggested, undoing the top mount and the lower mount near the O/S driveshaft (leaving the one one the gearbox end and supporting the engine before undoing things), you can raise and lower the engine with a jack to gain access without having to remove the side mount bracket.

Oscar .. The pulleys?? (Is one of the pulleys the crankshaft pulley?) Does one need to change those too? Don't know if they are still available.. or did you mean the tensioner "Pulley" and belt?

There is no need to change the crank pulley unless it is the kind fitted with a rubber damper AND it is showing signs of breaking up. Not seen one fitted to a BX though so probably a red herring. What could/should(?) be changed is the tensioner pulley, but I'd be reluctant to change a smooth running OE tensioner for a new cheap pattern part. If it feels rough or has play then yes, but not always required IMO.
IIRC the exhaust manifold to downpipe bolts make a good camshaft locking tool, certainly do on the 16v engine.

[Oscar]

They made a petrol BX ???!?

[Vanny]

Honestly, it is easier to undo the starter motor and move it out of the way in order to get your allen key/hacksaw frame to lock the flywheel up. I spent an hour trying to do it with starter motor in situ, then 5 minutes once I'd spent another 10 minutes moving the motor. I am sure there are those who can do it really easily, but I don't do it that often and lack practise.

There is a special tool for doing the job that fits down the back of the starter and literally fally into the hole in the engine casing. It's fundamentally a piece of bar (6mm bar maybe) shaped like an 'L' with 6" in the short bit and a slight kink 5" up the long bit. I made one with a bit of guess work and it works a treat, i've also bought the correct Citroen tools and it works just as well.