Replacing a Water Pump --- Important questions

[Oscar]

Honestly, it is easier to undo the starter motor and move it out of the way in order to get your allen key/hacksaw frame to lock the flywheel up. I spent an hour trying to do it with starter motor in situ, then 5 minutes once I'd spent another 10 minutes moving the motor. I am sure there are those who can do it really easily, but I don't do it that often and lack practise.

There is a special tool for doing the job that fits down the back of the starter and literally fally into the hole in the engine casing. It's fundamentally a piece of bar (6mm bar maybe) shaped like an 'L' with 6" in the short bit and a slight kink 5" up the long bit. I made one with a bit of guess work and it works a treat, i've also bought the correct Citroen tools and it works just as well.

Yes, I know - one of the mechanics at the garage I use offered me his and it goes in easily indeed. This was the second time around. The first time i didn't know what I was doing and was doing it with the wrong tool.

[Adrian (NZ)]

Hi all,

I am changing the water pump on my 16V (along with timing belt). I bought one made by Saleri Italo (Italian) and it came with a thin metal (aluminium I think) washer. The washer has a ridge running along it that I presume compresses as you tighten the bolts and makes the seal. However I'm skeptical it will seal, and am wondering whether to add some silicone gasket sealer to make sure. Has anyone had experience of a washer like this? The instructions specify what to do with a paper seal, with no paper seal, and with a rubber seal, but not a metal seal! I'd rather not use silicone if I know it is not needed.

Cheers.

[Turboalternator]

Hallo Matt,

This is really going to sound like I'm an ass! But please can you clarify:

On the O/S you suggest that I place a jack under the engine and remove the top and bottom engine support. But then you appear to say that I should leave all the N/S engine supports alone.

That being so then how can the engine move up if it is still attached on one side? Do you mean that the bottom N/S support would be acting as a hinge and that the engine would swing like a door?

Also to you and anyone.. is lifting the engine the right way to change the timing belt and pump? I only asked about it in the first place because that wretched side mounting is in the bloody way and I wouldn't be able to see what I was doing.

By the way are there any issues with either driveshaft, (them popping out or something), when jacking up the engine in this way? Just thought I'd ask that to be safe!

I also haven't a clue what you're saying regarding the exhaust manifold -- could you please explain? Also does that not have to be removed before jacking up the engine? (Or at least the down pipe).

Best to plan all these things before you start the job .. Now I'm sure of that philosophy!

Best regards to all

[Turboalternator]

Hallo Adrian,

Interesting what you say about the metal washer for your Water Pump.

However, the oil sump washer is also metal that compresses and makes a good seal. (Oil is under pressure too). Does your water pump washer resemble the oil sump washer, albeit a larger version of it? It might be much better than a paper one!

I think an important consideration is whether the metal faces of the pump and engine are clean and undamaged -- paper/rubber ones would be better at sealing a slightly damaged face, I would guess.

Also, if you think about it, the cylinder head like the water pump is subject to vibration so a paper seal would not be the ideal choice for either items.

All in all, I wish I had your seal or at least a rubber/silicone one- I only have a paper one.

If you are going to change your water pump very soon can you please post exactly what you did? (And how the job went - thanks!).

I won't be tackling my one for a few more days and probably not until next week.

Best regards,

[mat_fenwick]

I used to work for a company who supplied OE and aftermarket waterpumps - on the OE ones the tendency was to use the metal type with a compressible ridge, and with the aftermarket types a paper gasket. The metal types were coated with a thin layer of rubber to seal, and we had no issues with leakages caused by the gasket, even when used several times in a test (against the gasket makers advice). The reason I was given for use of the metal one is that it had a longer lifespan so would give reduced warranty claims. I would imagine that a paper gasket would seal better if the mating surfaces weren't as good. Like you I would advise against sealant if at all possible as it can get everywhere. I've often used a very thin smear of grease though, to help seal.

Do you mean that the bottom N/S support would be acting as a hinge and that the engine would swing like a door?

Exactly! Can't say whether this is the 'correct' way but I think it does mention it in the Haynes manual. Myself and a lot of other people have used it with success, you only have to move the engine slightly up or down to make a big difference to access.
All I was meaning with the manifold to downpipe bolts is that the size of them made a handy locking pin for the camshaft! You don't need to touch the manifold, the exhaust system has enough scope for movement to let you move the engine up and down a couple of inches.

[jonathan_dyane]

On the O/S you suggest that I place a jack under the engine and remove the top and bottom engine support.

You only need to remove the upper O/S mount, the other mount (at the rear of the engine on the underside) may be left in situ also, indeed to remove it may cause more movement than is desirable. The function of this mount is to prevent back/forth movement rather than up/down.

Take weight of the engine with a jack, and remove the upper mount (*tip* a small spark plug socket is your friend) then you are free to use the jack to move the engine up/down as required. The driveshafts popping out is practically impossible, unless you go mad with the jacking.

[Adrian (NZ)]

Thanks for the advice re: the pump gasket. I installed it today without problem but will have to wait a while to test it. I'm also replacing the cam belt and tensioners. I sourced the belt locally but the tensioners are NZ$120 (almost 60 quid) EACH!. I will see if GSF can post them to NZ cheaper than this.

For the record, I removed the top engine mount and lowered the engine slightly on a trolley jack to get better access to the pump. Had to remove the timing belt, but this may only apply to 16V petrol motors. Scraping away the old gasket was a pig of a job, as was removing the timing belt cover.

Cheers,
Adrian

[Turboalternator]

Hallo Adrian,

Good job!

Lowering the engine was also what Martin from "Pleiades" suggested .. I bought some HP pipe seals off him today, (see another thread), and asked him a "freebie" about changing the W/pump. He was very nice about it.

Thanks for the feedback .. please post again after you test everything.

Best regards,