17 TZD Engine starts fine but peters out after a few seconds

[andycadabra]

he came, shorted the contacts on the starter motor, and when it only made that noise it makes when it doesn't turn the engine (which it does 50% of the time) he said 'you need a new starter motor',and seem to think his job was done. I explained that was normal, and after trying the ignition it did turn over, and eventually started. However he wasn't very helpful with the ongoing fuel problem.
barring my finding any obvious leak underneath, I think I'd better put it with a garage. Can anyone offer any advice whether I could use any garage or should it be a Citroen specialist or one with sophisticated testing equipment?

[KevR]

I'd say you're better off with a dedicated diesel specialist than a general garage or even a Cit specialist.
As for the starting/blank dash problem, check the big connector plugs from battery to starter etc (usually lurking around somewhere near the battery tray. Also, sometimes the ignition switch corrodes and if you push it too far, effectively goes past a good contact onto a furry bit (technical term...). Worth trying turn it very gently towards the 'start' position and seeing if it catches. Had this problem on my old TD saloon (known as Bagpuss because it was saggy, and a bit loose at the seams...).

[DavidRutherford]

he came, shorted the contacts on the starter motor, and when it only made that noise it makes when it doesn't turn the engine (which it does 50% of the time) he said 'you need a new starter motor',and seem to think his job was done. I explained that was normal, and after trying the ignition it did turn over, and eventually started. However he wasn't very helpful with the ongoing fuel problem.

I do believe you've just managed to enlist the services of the shittest mobile mechanic in the history of time. The XUD engine is extremely well known in the uk, and any motor mechanic who can't diagnose a slightly duff battery clamp (this is why everything goes off sometimes), a slightly sticky starter solenoid (this is why your starter sometimes just goes "click") and an air leak (the reason it's difficult to start and is surging) should be fired on the spot.

[andycadabra]

Kev - thanks for those helpful suggestions. I'll put them into action as soon as I've solved the more pressing problems, which was just the fuel starvation, but, as of today, is a snapped clutch cable!. As I can't see either end, I'll let the local garage fix that,( though any ideas as to what it should cost would be welcome) and let them have a go at the fuel problem.

David - he was a bit on the young side. I told him the starter motor was only about 4 years old, so shouldn't be failing but he said 'that noise' was the first sign that it was failing. Incidentally the noise is more than just a click, it's quite loud and has 'a tail' on it, but doesn't turn the engine over. it is seldom does that more than twice in a row before the engine does turn over. Am I right in thinking you disagree that the starter motor needs changing?

He agreed that there was air leaking into the system, and suggested using the priming pump, and then letting a garage test it.

[sub777w]

hi had same problem on my tzd and my diesel bx.the 1.9 diesel it was sucking in air on the push button primer on top of the fuel filter type next to lhm tank. the tzd was a nightmare .bad starting ,lack of power, and tickover was eratic. put a primer lift pump on inline type cured eratic tick over. it wasnt till i replaced my fuel lines in engine bay between diesel pump and fuelfilter and return pipe from d pump and got rid of plastic pipe with barrel type valve running a long side diesel injector all replaced with fuel line and jubulee clips cured all probs. mind once had a 306 d turbo with a hair line crack in bottom of fuel filter housing there the same as the later bx tzd on top of the themostate housing .

[DavidRutherford]

David - he was a bit on the young side. I told him the starter motor was only about 4 years old, so shouldn't be failing but he said 'that noise' was the first sign that it was failing. Incidentally the noise is more than just a click, it's quite loud and has 'a tail' on it, but doesn't turn the engine over. it is seldom does that more than twice in a row before the engine does turn over. Am I right in thinking you disagree that the starter motor needs changing?

If when the starter finally decides to wind the engine over it sounds fine, then I would diagnose a sticky solenoid rather than the motor itself being duff. They're a bit of an arse to strip down, as you have to de-solder a couple of the solid copper winding tails from the end-cap before you can take it off, but once off you can then get to the copper contacts and the engaging bar and give them a good file/clean to get them back to "as new". Done this a number of times in the past on an alledgedly dead starter motor and had many more years of service from it.

[andycadabra]

Thanks for that useful tip David, but unless I'm risking getting stuck somewhere with a starter motor that won't turn over, (with a breakdown company that won't come out because they said it needed replacing the last time they did), I'll save that one for later on...
Too many other things needing sorting - clutch cable, air in fuel line, heater/cooler fan not working most of the time, creaky front strut, and so on!

[andycadabra]

Sub - only just noticed your post. Thanks for replying. I don't have a pushbutton primer on top of the fuel filter next to the lhm tank on my TZD. Perhaps because I'm Lucas/CAV ?. I have the rubber 'rugby ball' type priming pump and the fuel filter on top of the thermostat housing that you also mention, and I will certainly check it for hairline cracks.
I don't know what a primer lift pump is I'm afraid, or whether it would be compatible with my setup?
Was your tickover erratic in that it would randomly rise, and then gradually fall off, like mine (it only ever rises, never falls).
Do I understand that you got rid of the barrel type valve, replacing it with new fuel line? - did you use jubilee clips in all connections including places where they wouldn't have been originally used?

[citronut]

the fuel ar leak could be the primmer diaphraghm is perished, you used to be able to buy a universal filter head to fit the BX type filter for around 40 quid

regards malcolm

[sub777w]

Sub - only just noticed your post. Thanks for replying. I don't have a pushbutton primer on top of the fuel filter next to the lhm tank on my TZD. Perhaps because I'm Lucas/CAV ?. I have the rubber 'rugby ball' type priming pump and the fuel filter on top of the thermostat housing that you also mention, and I will certainly check it for hairline cracks.
I don't know what a primer lift pump is I'm afraid, or whether it would be compatible with my setup?
Was your tickover erratic in that it would randomly rise, and then gradually fall off, like mine (it only ever rises, never falls).
Do I understand that you got rid of the barrel type valve, replacing it with new fuel line? - did you use jubilee clips in all connections including places where they wouldn't have been originally used?

hi that was just the diesel bx that had the push button primer. my turbo diesel is the same as yours. i have the same rubber rugby bal type primer, we just call it that in the trade, primer lift pump. yes had the same tick over problems as yours.
yes got rid of barrel valve and replaced all pipes with jublee clips ever where they wouldnt have been originally,

[andycadabra]

Think I may have found the culprit!
While squeezing the primer pump, I noticed some fuel leaking from bottom of fuel filter housing.
Its the black plastic cylinder type with 4 bolts on top, and frustratingly not covered in the manual. The leaking is from a white plastic thing with a cross moulded on it, as though it should be undone by hand - but it cant. It's on lower left next to fuel inlet. Any one know what it is? drain point? Hard to know how to undo it.

[mat_fenwick]

It's a thermostatic valve which allows diesel to flow round a small heat exchanger cast into the thermostat housing (in cold weather only), below the black plastic filter housing. It is held in by a cupped star washer which can be easily removed if the filter housing is off the car. The white plunger can then be removed and chances are its O ring will have deteriorated. I did the very same job a couple of weeks back, but the plunger disintegrated on removal so I changed the whole housing complete.

[andycadabra]

Thanks Mat! - Have no idea what a cupped start washer is, google couldnt help, but it may be obvious when i remove housing - I presume its not around the white thing, and only accessible from underneath?

[mat_fenwick]

It would help if I could spell correctly...

It's similar to this


but with the star on the outside and it's a star washer! It is around the 'white thing' but access will be difficult in situ.

[andycadabra]

yr link didnt work, Mat, but i'd guess something like this?:

http://www.circlipindia.com/star-washer.html