17TZD clutch cable mystery

[andycadabra]

Thanks for the feedback - it seems like I had to pay them for being unfamiliar with BX's/incompetent, but my options were a bit limited, bearing in mind the car couldn't be driven any distance without a clutch.

My main concern now is that the clutch now feels notchy and rubbery, and creeks, and sometimes feeling like it's catching on something. I had a look at the clutch end, and the weight that is about the size of a cotton reel and fixed to the cable seems to be rubbing against the ribs on the gearbox housing. I don't know what that weight is there for but I can't imagine it's supposed to be catching on anything, or, worst-case scenario, the cable could break?!
Anyway there's a definite creaking which that wouldn't be responsible for, and I don't remember it creaking before the cable was changed, it always felt nice and smooth. - any ideas what this might be?. should the cable have been oiled before it was fitted?

[citronut]

sounds like they might hhave bent the clutch actuatting arm,

first thing i would try bis remove the weight just to make sure that is not the cause, it's held on by a 10mm nut,

other than that check the outter cable is coectly fitted in the eye of it's mountting bracket, if not the inner cable will chafe abd break within a couple of weeks,

they are great fun to get in correctly especialy the later style with that silly tinny white locking ring' you have to snap into place after making sure you have located the bable end into it's seat in the correct oriantation,

all this with both hands down the back of the engine,

regards malcolm

[andycadabra]

It seems that there are 2 problems, neither of which I remember existing before the cable was changed. The 'catching' feel on parts of the pedal travel is being caused by the weight on the cable getting caught on the ribs of the top of the gearbox, as proven by the fact that when I put a piece of card in between the weight and the gearbox it stopped happening. The garage say the new cable is the same as the old one, and that it's not catching, which is nonsense! The weight is easily visible from above so I would be grateful if anyone could check what this clearance is supposed to be?

The other problem is the creaking, rubbery feel to the pedal towards the end of its travel both when pressing it, and at the end of its travel releasing it. They say the creaking is the pressure plate, because the clutch kit is worn, and has become too hard, and that's why the cable broke (FWIW the cable didn't actually break, it was the 'hook' at the pedal end). They may be right on this but I just don't remember it being like that before,

Citronut - interesting suggestion about them bending the clutch actuating arm, since that would explain why the cable is so low that it's catching on the gearbox, but would it also explain the creaking? Also, I can't think of any reason why they could have bent it?
The weight I am referring to is the one about the size of the reel of cotton and is very definitely fixed to the cable and can't be removed. I've had a look at the pedal end and the cable does seem to take a bit of a crooked 'S shaped' route underneath the pedal box. I don't know that affects anything. The 30mm rubber housings at the clutch end seem to be correctly in place in the mounting bracket and clutch lever.
I'm very impressed that you can get your hands down the back of the engine let alone fit the clutch cable, while they're down there!

here's a video of the problem captured from above.

[Linegeist]

This may be a shot in the dark, but I remember a similar problem with my father-in-law's BX a few years ago, that had a clutch cable fitted by a non-cit garage.

They obtained a cheapie pattern part and, to compound an already compromised job, they routed the cable in a strange double 'S' around and over the exhaust manifold, and then secured it with cable ties.

The net result of this novel fitting was intially a very heavy clutch, quickly followed by a graunching noise when the pedal was depressed very much like you describe.

Working on the assumption that the only part to have been changed most likely would be the one causing the problem, I removed the gearbox end gubbins from the cable, fitted some flexi pipe tightly around the engine end of the cable, suspended it from the bonnet catch and filled it with engine oil. I stuffed a rag under the pedal box to catch any that dribbled all the way through to the pedal end and left it overnight - and dribble it did.

It cured the problem and the clutch was wonderfully soft - for about 6 months, by which time the tyres were knackered, the HP pump was getting noisy and the front struts were making more noise than I do getting the car off its knees in the mornings - so he flogged it and bought a Almeira. Twit!

Just a thought.

[andycadabra]

Thanks for that suggestion Linegeist. Here's a picture of the 'S' in mine.

the clutch cable runs horizontally through the centre of the picture, although it's partially hidden on the left, the curve you see is how it is.

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad35 ... utch/s.jpg

The thing is the feel at the pedal seems to be connected to the noise at the clutch end - I don't know if you saw the video? but it has that exact sound on it, which is quite an open one, rather than one I would imagine coming from the inside of the cable.
Also I tried contorting the old cable to see how it felt, and it did become a bit stiffer but still very smooth.
Funny you should mention noisy front struts. I have one which sounds like a creaky mattress/floorboard sound effect at the moment, but at least I don't have to feel the creak through my left foot!

[MULLEY]

I'd just bite the bullet & actually take your car to a citroen specialist who knows their stuff, get a report from them with whats wrong with the job the previous garage did, take that to the garage that bodged the job & get them to refund you back some/all money or you'll go to trading standards & mention them on every internet forum in the world, so it's in their interests to get rid of you with a refund.

[citronut]

you wont see the pedel end of the outter cabl were it fits in its bracket from inside the car,

you need to remove the two screw from the rubber boot on the engine side of the bulkhead, then if you press the bulhead sound proofing tight against the bulkhead you can see the bracket and the outter cable sitting into it,

and yes i alway fit these from the engine side and never drop the pedel box down,

and i have seen these cables fail within a couple of weeks from wrongly/baddly being fitted by the likes of RAC patrol person's,

regards malcolm

ps.
pm sent

[andycadabra]

Mulley - I'm afraid in this case it would be very hard to prove that they've done anything wrong. The position of the cable and weight seem to be dependent on the position of the bracket housing and clutch arm and I can't think why they would have had reason to bend it. It may be normal for the weight to pass very close to the gearbox housing?. The creaking noise heard clearly on the video seems to be coming from the clutch for which I suppose they are not responsible. I just don't remember it making that sound or feeling anything but smooth before.

Does anyone have any ideas about the sound?, is that the sound a pressure plate would make nearing the end of its life? It has the interesting characteristic of not sounding on the same part of the travel in each direction, as a creaking hinge would - it's always the last part of each stroke.

Citronut - thanks for sharing your secrets. I might see if I can do that tomorrow. Another way of eliminating the cabling from suspicion, which might be easier, might be to undo the nuts at the adjustment end, bungee the disconnected cable to something and see if the pedal travel is perfectly smooth

[Linegeist]

Could it be the release arm pivot points in the bellhousing? Easy to eliminate, just squirt some oil on the top one (the one with the highest stress loading) and see if it goes away after a few hours of use.

[docchevron]

The creak sounds exactley like the pedal pivot! But obviousley isn't if it's coming from the gearbox, so suspect the top bush on the release arm pivot.
Although the way the cable lifts as it pulls looks all wrong to me..
Hard to tell the height from the gearbox from above in the vid, but, I can see how they may hav bent eh arm and maybe disturbed the top pivot bush if they were being heavy handed whilst removing the old cable / fitting the new cable into the arm...

[docchevron]

PS: just looked at the photo... rather the wrong route for the cable then.....

[andycadabra]

Spot on Linegeist! (and Docchevron) Thanks! emptied a good 1/2 cup oil down a sawn off water bottle and drove a bit, and no creak!. I think the creak maybe came on because they covered the area in brass drill dust, drilling out a sheared bolt above.

However still cant explain the low riding cable and weight, still need the piece of card. May try tightening the cable a fraction.
If anyone could glance at their clearance ( push weight with a stick?) it'd help

DocC - I wouldnt have thought it'd be hard to get cable in/out of arm.. as for the cabling should i live with it as the cable feels ok otherwise?

[andycadabra]

They must have bent the arm, since I tried to bend it back, and it did leaving me with 6mm clearance and no need for card, now with holes worn in it.!
So after many hours wasted I just have to live with a badly routed cable, but at least it feels ok again! Thanks to all.

[Linegeist]

Well done on fixing the fault!

Actually, the worst part of the clutch cable job is the pedal end. The hardest part's been done and here's no reason why you can't disconnect at the gearbox end, reroute the whole shebang, and just pop it back onto the actuator arm.

I'd be nervous about having the wrong cable routing - don't forget the BX wasn't designed to be RHD, so our clutch cabling's a compromise to start with - and fairly stressed. I'd suggest a fair amount of thought went into the routing of the UK variant's cabling by Citroen's engineers - futzing with it isn't going to do you any favours.

Rerouting the cable's a faff, sure, but not as much as trying to connect the cable up with the pedal pin.

[citronut]

i never have a problem with hooking the cable onto the pedel, i find the hardest part is getting the outter cable end into the eye at the bulkhead, especialy ifits one of those horible two piece ends withe the snap ring which lock's into the end of the outter cable

regards malcolm