Turbo Boost

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:02 pm

Might have been heard before but in the Hurricane we don't feel the turbo like in the old one or as it should be, there's just no 'umph' at all.

Had the pipe problem with the accumulator fixed last week so can now accelerate without the pipe popping off, also had the wonky pedal fixed which we thought was the cause of the turbo problem.

Bassically you put your foot down, the car goes but not as it should, you get no kick or are thrown back in your seat as in our old one, anyone know what is causing this? It struggles to reach 100mph wereas our old Hurricane was like a knife through butter.

KevR · Post by **KevR** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:40 pm

Sounds just like ours. Much slower than any of the others we've had, but then more economical and doesn't smoke anything like as much. I suspect someone's knocked back the pump settings for economy or an emissions test at some point. It did make a bit of difference changing the (seriously manky) fuel filter as well.

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:34 pm

KevR wrote:Sounds just like ours. Much slower than any of the others we've had, but then more economical and doesn't smoke anything like as much. I suspect someone's knocked back the pump settings for economy or an emissions test at some point. It did make a bit of difference changing the (seriously manky) fuel filter as well.

Yeah that sounds similar, our's hardly smokes at all and is pretty economical, anyone else think this is what's causing the lack of power?

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:06 pm

Have you checked to make sure that the throttle cable when its buried into the carpet is actually moving the diesel pump arm its attached to, move right to the far end of the pump, it should be very close to touching a bit of the pump that stops it moving any further when doing this, if not then that's why you have a lack of power, just adjust the cable.

If that's all ok, fuel filter as above & have you checked the air filter?

If they are all ok, perhaps theres fungus in the fuel tank, you can buy some stuff that kills it off.

If its not that, then it may just be a slow one

or turbo issue?

Post by **Defender110** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:12 pm

Yes the throttle cable should always be first port of call to make sure it is putting pressure on the spring at the throttle arm of the pump, followed by air and fuel filters. Once you know these are ok if there's no improvement it could be several other factors that need eliminating, injectors, pump timing, blocked exhaust, amongst other things.
The turbo normally operates on boost pressure from the inlet manifold as well via a pipe / diaphram altough I'm not sure of the system on the BX as luckily apart from timing belts /servicing I've never had to work on any of my BX engines.
You may pick up a few tips here + most good pump shops will test your injectors FOC once you've removed them.

http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/engine/diesel.php

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:15 pm

Agreed with the restriction to the throttle arm - I've seen a loose fuel pipe stop the arm from moving fully. I would say that the arm on the pump should be AT the stop when the pedal is buried in the carpet.

I'd be doubtful if it's a turbo problem - you would tend to get black smoke if the turbo isn't providing enough air.

Also worth a check for binding brakes perhaps - any wheels feel abnormally hot?

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:55 pm

Update on this, was out in it yesterday and took it to around 80-85mph were the car/dashboard starts to shake, felt no turbo at all.

We have put in a new fuel filter even though the old one was like new when we took it out, also when you press the pedal the arm does indeed move, we had it fixed at the Citroen Garage but I don't know if it's perfect.

Will check through the rest of your ideas but is there anything else people could think of that's causing this?

Don't really want to acept that it's a 'slow one' lol.

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:10 am

When you say you had it fixed, what did the garage exactly do? If the pedal box is broken (I've had 2 of these), then the pedal box would require removing & the broken part of it needs welding back up to make the part which bends when pushing the throttle & therefore doesnt allow maximum travel on the throttle to actually not bend anymore.

Simplest check is to get a mate in the car, engine off, get him/her to push the throttle pedal as far as it will go, you check inside the engine bay to see how far the diesel pump throttel arm moves, it should touch the far endstop, if it doesnt then its either a stretched cable or a bust pedal box.

If all of the above is fine, then it must be someting else?

Post by **docchevron** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:51 am

could be any number of things, I'd start with the above listed stuff, then check how much boost pressure the turbo is giving.
I assume the car has a Lucas pump? If so, the fuel compensating diaphram can fail..

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:51 pm

MULLEY wrote:When you say you had it fixed, what did the garage exactly do? If the pedal box is broken (I've had 2 of these), then the pedal box would require removing & the broken part of it needs welding back up to make the part which bends when pushing the throttle & therefore doesnt allow maximum travel on the throttle to actually not bend anymore.

Simplest check is to get a mate in the car, engine off, get him/her to push the throttle pedal as far as it will go, you check inside the engine bay to see how far the diesel pump throttel arm moves, it should touch the far endstop, if it doesnt then its either a stretched cable or a bust pedal box.

If all of the above is fine, then it must be someting else?

Yeah we had a wonky pedal problem which wasn't going through as it should when acellerating but we had that fixed and checked it last night with someone else in the car and now the arm in the engine moves exactly were it should.

The guy at the Citroen garage himself who fixed it said it should be right now.

themildbunch · Post by **themildbunch** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:20 pm

I assume the car has a Lucas pump? If so, the fuel compensating diaphram can fail..

I've heard about this - do you have any links / photos of this part of the pump, I'd like to check mine..

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:34 pm

A few more words being thrown about, oil contamination? Noticed that we had oil in the air cleaner to turbo trunking.

The garage said this was normal. Also recently have noticed a bit of oil round the edge of the hose that comes from the pump to the intercooler. Also there is a pump, a Bosch pump.

Hope you guys can make some sense of that because that load of jibberish is what I've just been told.

johnbird · Post by **johnbird** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:45 pm

can you rig up a boost gauge from the turbo? not looked but there is generally a feed available and blanked. i can post you a gauge and some silicone if you want to check the boost?pipe through the window from the bonnet shouldnt take long to rig up.

maxgreenwood · Post by **maxgreenwood** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:29 am

I had the same problem on my previous TZD and followed some advice posted up here on the forum, i think from a contributor 'Jeremy' who doesn't really post anymore... it turned out that the rubber diaphragm in the fuel pump / attached to outside of pump was cracked and not responding to the air coming down the small rubber feed pipe from the turbo. This diaphragm senses the pressure from the turbo and if it doesn't respond you will get no extra fuel or air hence no extra power. A way to check is pop off the air pipe at the fuel pump end - its a 20 cm length of 8-10mm rubber pipe or thereabouts, mine was a Lucas pump setup and the hose was clamped on the front of the pump.., Then rev the engine and check you're getting a blast of air from the turbo down this pipe, you'll feel it on your face if the end is pointing remotely towards you. If nothing it will be a turbo issue, if you get the air, it will be at the pump end of things.

I got air coming out of mine and drove the car without it attached and felt no difference meaning i was definately getting no turbo power! I'd noticed it dropping off from when i bought the car.

Anyway scratching my head about what to do about it, as alot of garages don't necessarily understand the pumps themselves or setups of particular cars.. i was advised by a Cit specialist here to take it to a diesel fuel pump specialist, as luck would have it , there was one not very far from me.. 'Diesel Fuel Injection' in Dublin. They said it could be the diaphragm... They took the pump out and replaced that small part, about 2 hours labour i think, popped the pump back in and i couldn't believe the difference and power from this small engine, and what i had been missing for so long. It put the biggest smile on my face driving away from there.

If you have the same diagnostic symptoms as i did, find a similar diesel fuel pump specialist, that would be your best bet, its not too expensive. the guys i used seemed to overhaul pumps for trucks and the like, so the haulage end of things might be a good place to ask around.

They also said what used to happen on some TD Mondeos was this diaphragm would disintigrate and the engine would run off out of control or something, but i've never hear of that with a BX.

The best of luck. I was scratching my head about it for ages.

Post by **Defender110** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:44 am

Defender110 wrote: The turbo normally operates on boost pressure from the inlet manifold as well via a pipe / diaphram

I do think this needs checking too.