Front suspension arms : bushes and bearings.

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toddao
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Front suspension arms : bushes and bearings.

Post by toddao »

I need to replace the front arm bushes and I was reading in The Haynes:

' If the pivot bushes in the suspension arm are worn and in need of replacement then it is also probable that the pivot bearings in the subframe are in need of renewal'

I can't find anything in 'The Technical archives' re this, in fact no reference at all to these 'pivot bearings' - nothing on The Service Citroen website and nothing available from my usual parts service here in Germany.

I know the Mk.1s had a different set-up with the front wishbone but mine is a late one from 1986.

Can anyone illuminate/help with this. It's like an info black-hole at the moment.

Thankyou.
Todd


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Post by sdelasal »

I took the comment about "pivot bearings in the subframe" as only being applicable to the mk1 which had bearings. I thought it was all rubber in the mk2. steve
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Post by Stinkwheel »

As above, mk1's bearings, mk2's bushes.

So i dont think yours has bearings.
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Post by Gibbo2286 »

Although if a mark2 has been run with the through shaft slack you can have wear on the shaft and in the subframe holes through which it passes.

Pretty rare because they make a hell of a clatter but I have seen this happen. Gibbo.
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Post by toddao »

Well mine is a Mk.1 but I found a post where Malcolm said only the very early Mk.1s had these subframe bearings. When I said mine was 'late' - I meant a late Mk.1. But how do I find out what mine has?
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toddao
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Post by toddao »

Found this which seems to answer my question.
Heaven knows where you would find these subframe bearings if you needed them?

P.S I just read the supplement section in The Haynes and it says the old subframe bearings were discontinued in Sept. 85. My break - which I'm fixing right now - being March 86 then is thankfully Ok but my TRD is August 85 but still in good order in that department thankfully.
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Post by MULLEY »

Todd, i believe i've got these particular front bearing kits (skf one's) (just incase i got a mk1), if you come over to blighty, pm me & i'll show you the kit so that you can possibly get it made up for future use. I don't really want to sell any, just incase i need them myself.
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Post by Defender110 »

Todd, I wouldn't imagine the bearings will be hard to get hold of, I would think the bearings were just a generic bearing and available from any bearing supplier with a choice of manufacturer.
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Post by mat_fenwick »

toddao wrote:Heaven knows where you would find these subframe bearings if you needed them?
The SKF code is VKDA 13003 if that is any help? I bid on a set from UK Ebay which were incorrectly listed as rear arm bearings - only realised when I looked at the picture. :oops:
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Post by Defender110 »

I think that will be the part no. for the complete kit if required.


http://www.skf.com/files/240489.pdf
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Post by mat_fenwick »

Yes, that's what I meant but didn't make it very clear.
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Post by citronut »

the easyest way to tell if you have bearing in your front sub frame/arm pivot points, is were the bolt enter's and exits the sub frame if no bearing it is conned of, were if it has bearings it is straight right to the ends were the bolt goes through the sub frame,


also im prety sure the bearings if you require them are the same as the rear arm's, but the seals are completly diferent,


another also
cars with bearing at the front do still have the bushes in the arm as well

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Post by RxBX »

toddao wrote:Well mine is a Mk.1 but I found a post where Malcolm said only the very early Mk.1s had these subframe bearings. When I said mine was 'late' - I meant a late Mk.1. But how do I find out what mine has?
Todd,
That's easy if you can measure the spindle dia. (14mm or 16mm) also the A/F size for the spindle nuts are different, so if you have a MK2 BX to compare it with that would be quite a simple check (If I can find a spare early MK1 spindle with a nut in my spares/stock) I can PM the A/F nut size for you.
mat_fenwick wrote:
toddao wrote:Heaven knows where you would find these subframe bearings if you needed them?
The SKF code is VKDA 13003 if that is any help? I bid on a set from UK Ebay which were incorrectly listed as rear arm bearings - only realised when I looked at the picture. :oops:
The following quotes are from Mat's BX BLOG !
mat_fenwick wrote:They're for the front arms, this SKF catalogue shows it...
A shame I didn't look at the photo more closely before bidding, but as they are not as described I should be able to retract my bid. Unless I keep them as a spare, but I could get a set of arms complete with wishbones for not much more!
mat_fenwick wrote:I've sorted it out with the seller and she was very apologetic - they've now been relisted as front kits hereso looks like a genuine mistake....
RxBX wrote: Hi Mat,
Maybe you should inform them (The Lady) that the 'VKDA13003' as stated in the SKF catologue states that that kit is only suitable for BX's manufactured from:- 09.82 —> 09.85 !

Therefore this kit is only suitable for the early MK1's which had the tapered roller bearing's (as can also be seen in the E-Bay listing photo) which was fitted into the sub-frame mount/housing's and which also had the smaller 14mm dia. spindles, so this kit will be no use to anyone even with a late MK1 which had the revised sub-frame/mounting with the larger 16mm dia. spindles as was fitted to all MK2 BX's.
E-Bay Seller wrote: FRONT WISHBONE PIN KITS
MADE BY SKF PT NO....VKDA13003
TO FIT ALL Citroën BX MODELS ......1982-->93
If you need/want to check it out, it's all in the BOL ('Haynes' Chapter 13 Supplement pages 396/397) which was printed with proper paper rather than the revised BOL which was printed with re-cycled loo paper !
Todd, I hope you clicked on the 'here' in the second /\ quote which shows the E-BAY listing with a photo of the MK1's which used bearing in the front sub-frame's, also as Malcolm posts states that the actual bearing are the same as those used in the rear radius arms is 100% correct !

If you (or anyone else) prefers to source these bearings as an individual part/item, the identification part number is JL22349F in a 'TIMKEN' brand !

I hope this maybe of help !

:D

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toddao
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Post by toddao »

Thanks everyone. The black hole of knowledge is transformed into enlightenment!

I will start on my front arm bushes today so I'm sure they'll be further questions for the 'panel of experts!' :D
Todd


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Post by rmattila »

A couple of pictures on the topic: http://www.rmattila.com/images/remontit ... tukivarsi/

After changing the bushes, remember to first take the car off the jacks and set it to normal driving position, and only after that do the final tightening of the 24 mm nut. Otherwise the bushes will be under constant strain and wear out quickly.

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