grim outlook for the GT

B-Hive · Post by **B-Hive** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:21 am

Hi all

In the process of working out the extent of my HP pump rattle I removed the drive belt and fired her up. Certainly a lot of the racket had gone but.....

Long story short.. there is quite a pronounced rattle/din coming from the top/middle of the engine, more so than just valve clearances. So as the HP pump is tired as is the clutch and the paint work on the car is shot and doesnt warrant much spent on it, I may have come full circle and break it up as originally planned.

So before I do something I may later regret, any words of advice.

I know that the engine has been abused as I think the poor ol' car was used as a paddock basher in its later years. From my experience its the sort of rattle that would make you walk away from buying a car. I didnt pay much heed to the engine when I bought it because I was just intending to use it as an auto to manual conversion donor.

I know these engines are quite hardy and rarely need big end/crank bearing work, but what about the higher up? like the gudgeons or little end bearings.

If it is "just" the valve gear, is it all interchangeable with a 1.6 head (which I have a spare) and is there any way of testing to make sure what is coming off is the actual problem?. Or is there an oil feed issue that may be starving the head?..last question ..does the valve gear fail catastrophically or will it just get louder.?

I appreciate that there are many variables since you cannot actually hear the rattle but input is appreciated before I lower the hatchet on the GT..

Thanks

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:36 am

You could just stick another engine straight in, maybe a diesel one

B-Hive · Post by **B-Hive** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:15 am

ken newbold wrote:You could just stick another engine straight in, maybe a diesel one

or....i could just install a permanent parachute out the back...same result..JK

Okay I have just dismantled my spare head to work out how it all goes together and functions. This head is kaput however it has shown me that it seems that the camshaft lower bearing surfaces are machined into the head. So if these surfaces are worn i guess that it requires a recond/swap head to fix any camshaft bearing issues...correct? also there is a little oil feed tube with removable filter in the head (only removable with head off) so if that is blocked I'm guessing it s a head off job unless you can reverse flush it.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:38 am

Hahaha @ parachute!

Just bang another XU9 in it. New gaskets, belts etc. It is a project afterall!

Post by **Tim Leech** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:16 am

NOOO not a diesel, keep it as it should be, rebuild the head and see how it goes. They arent the "quietest" of petrol engines at the best of time fitting an oil burner will be even noisier!

Jayboy · Post by **Jayboy** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:53 am

If you'd known this before i scrapped the TZS estate last year I would of happily donated it to the cause. It got scrapped due to rampant corrosion and general scruffiness, not mechanical issues.

Personally I'd transplant from another 19 petrol. I'm sure a rotten one with good mechanics will turn up cheap. Don't break her!!

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:24 pm

It doesn\'t just have to be a BX either. 405 1.9 carb engine, some early injection models aswell I believe so possible even a 205 GTi. In fact, get a late one, bit of fettling and you\'ve got a big valve head upgrade! 8v\'s are always cheap these days.

kiwi · Post by **kiwi** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:03 pm

Hey guys if memory serves me 2BXORNOT2BX is in Australia!!!

There must be plenty of Pugs out there actually I know there are that an engine could be used from if its worst case damge.

B-Hive · Post by **B-Hive** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:05 am

Thanks for the words of advice...I removed the camshaft bearing top halves to have a look, and they are a little worn but nothing that would seriously contribute to the rattle I'm getting..The more I listen to it the more that I am sure that it is a worn or damaged big end.

In Australia we don't really have a ready supply of engines as cars don't tend to rust here but resale values are so low and backup is poor for BX's that owners get reluctant to spend any money or time so they tend to suffer mechanically.

I'll investigate a suitable swap out giving the GT a stay of execution or I may store it until something comes along..

BTW are there internal differences in the GT motor that give it more torque than the "standard" 1.9. Why I ask is that the TRi gives out 103HP and about 140nm torque (with injection) wheres as according to my research the GT motor (with carb) gives 105Hp and 161Nm torque..

frog · Post by **frog** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:59 am

Hopefully you can find another engine for it. If the shell is straight it would be a shame to see it scrapped. Where are you in AUS?

There should be enough wrecked 205/405/other BX's to be able to find another engine, they occasionally come up on Aussiefrogs for less than 500.
Maybe you could find a TRi 122, or TZi motor, you could retain the carb. In my old GT I had a DKZ (TRi 122) head on a DFZ (TRi) block giving it 10.5:1 compression, which was very fun.

There are not enough mk1's in Aus. I'd store it for the time being if you have the room, don't scrap it!

B-Hive · Post by **B-Hive** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:21 am

frog wrote: Where are you in AUS?

I'm in Canberra, where abouts are you?

frog · Post by **frog** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:33 am

Damn, I'm in Brisbane. Would have been nice to organise a BX cruise.

Kevin B · Post by **Kevin B** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:11 pm

Maybe you could find a TRi 122, or TZi motor, you could retain the carb. In my old GT I had a DKZ (TRi 122) head on a DFZ (TRi) block giving it 10.5:1 compression, which was very fun.

How did that work then?

Because in UK the 1905cc multipoint fuel injected engine (that you would typically find on a BX TRi/Tzi estate) has an inlet manifold porting arrangement on the cylinder head which is not compatible with the inlet manifold from a 1.6 or 1.9 Carburated engine.

Kevin B · Post by **Kevin B** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:30 pm

In my old GT I had a DKZ (TRi 122) head on a DFZ (TRi) block giving it 10.5:1 compression

Also I am interested to know what you had to do to raise the compression ratio from the standard 9.2:1, to 10.5:1 (which is in excess of the 16v D6c engine which has a CR of 10.4:1).

Engine particulars for the BX TRi estate:

Cylinders: 4
Valves per cylinder: 2
Capacity: 1905 cm3
Bore x stroke: 83,0 x 88,0 mm
Compression: 9,2:1
Max power: 90 kW (122 hp)
Max power RPM: 6000 rpm
Max torque: 150 Nm
Max torque RPM: 3000 rpm
Fuel system: multipoint injection
Engine type: sohc

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Odd point maybe, but arent big end easier to deal with than a rattling cam?

Am i right in assuming BX engines are the same as most, i.e. sump off, crank caps, get at rods and big end shells, swap, reassemble?

Or am i over simplifying?