Clutch slipping

Post by **Tim Leech** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:20 am

Defender110 wrote:
Roverman wrote:
Defender110 wrote:So was the gearbox always noisy?
It was, i didnt notice it though, the XUD lump isnt known for being quiet, but since Ken pointed it out its very noticeable.
So there's no chance the pressure plate was accidentaly put in the wrong way round with the thick end of the boss touching the flywheel causing decreased drive pressure / noise?

As Doc says, I have complete faith in Kens abilities, next time I will buy a genuine clutch in a valeo box with a guarantee!

Anyway, still need a gearbox please!

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:37 pm

I don't think the friction plate will actually fit the wrong way round, the bulky side is too thick for it to sit back against the flywheel.

I would ring round for a price on the clutch. These are basically obsolete stock nowadays. No-one wants to undertake or pay the expense of a garage to change a clutch on a car this age. I'm sure a deal can be had.

Mothman · Post by **Mothman** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:16 pm

Ken,
a couple of years ago, my local garage did the clutch on my 1.9 n/a diesel and it works a treat, They said they could also do my 1.6 petrol anytime so i think you are wrong about no one wanting or able to fix up an old motor. Mind you, they are Citroen specialists but i guess there are such garages near you.

The old motor is still going like a train with the new clutch. Choo Choo!!

Andy

citronut · Post by **citronut** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:25 am

ken newbold wrote:I don't think the friction plate will actually fit the wrong way round, the bulky side is too thick for it to sit back against the flywheel.

you are correct it wont fit the wrong way round,

regards malcolm

B-Hive · Post by **B-Hive** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:17 pm

ken newbold wrote:I don't think the friction plate will actually fit the wrong way round, the bulky side is too thick for it to sit back against the flywheel.

I would ring round for a price on the clutch. These are basically obsolete stock nowadays. No-one wants to undertake or pay the expense of a garage to change a clutch on a car this age. I'm sure a deal can be had.

I agree, i recently bought a brand new spare clutch kit (Unipart-Borg and Beck) for 10 quid!!

Any opinions are the B & B okay...??

In respect to the original post...I thought my clutch was only good for another 20 thou Kms... but after readjusting the cable (almost zero take up free play at the bottom) it now is showing all the signs of a very healthy clutch...

citronut · Post by **citronut** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:23 pm

i find Unipart-Borg and Beck clutch's very heavy in there operation

regards malcolm

B-Hive · Post by **B-Hive** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:45 pm

citronut wrote:i find Unipart-Borg and Beck clutch's very heavy in there operation

regards malcolm

thats interesting to know... maybe the heavier springs helps with the higher torque engines..

christhelion · Post by **christhelion** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:44 am

It could be a remanufactured cover and new friction disc? did it have a shot blast feel to the pressed cover it and a very clearly ground pressure plate and not a turned plate?
I used to be a design engineer at a company that made clutches for trucks but we also remanufactured them as well. if the plate was ground to restore the surface it affects the stack height and puts the diaphragm on the wrong part of the clamp load curve.. if ya get me?
The fingers on the diaphragm should have sat level when it was installed but if the pressure plate surface was ground back a mil or so the fingers would sit slightly higher and the clamp load on the disc would be less...
I know what I mean and I'm not explaining it very well.

Post by **Defender110** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:22 am

christhelion wrote:It could be a remanufactured cover and new friction disc? did it have a shot blast feel to the pressed cover it and a very clearly ground pressure plate and not a turned plate?
I used to be a design engineer at a company that made clutches for trucks but we also remanufactured them as well. if the plate was ground to restore the surface it affects the stack height and puts the diaphragm on the wrong part of the clamp load curve.. if ya get me?
The fingers on the diaphragm should have sat level when it was installed but if the pressure plate surface was ground back a mil or so the fingers would sit slightly higher and the clamp load on the disc would be less...
I know what I mean and I'm not explaining it very well.

Would that be LIPE by any chance? genuine new lipe clutches were great if used properly, the problem was trying to get through to the drivers the correct method of use. The problems I have had over the years with remanufactured truck clutches gives me nightmares

christhelion · Post by **christhelion** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:36 am

LIPE indeed

I think when they manufactured their own on site the quality would have been better. But now they're owned by an indian company that does all the manufacturing and I can't tell you how much trouble we had with quality from there.
Emails back and forth, them saying things don't fit properly. So we'd check our drawings, say it should all be ok. This would go on for a week and then you'd ask "is it to drawing?"
"no... but.."

spring clips and circlips etc made from mild steel with no heat treatment. They'd bend in your hands like window lead. Holes missed for facing rivets. But the workers I think were paid if they made so many. So even if some were scrap they'd be sent anyway. And they'd get a b*llocking if they scrapped items. I've rejected 3 boxes of 100 driven plates (that the facing rivets to and disc rings (where the springs live) coz they didn't fit together. or like 4% did.

christhelion · Post by **christhelion** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:38 am

mat_fenwick wrote:When I worked at QH, we bought the friction material in from Valeo, so often this had Valeo printed on it....so it's difficult to tell the make although all manufacturers can let the odd dodgy one through.

I've been across to QH to have clutch assemblies and discs burst tested. What did you used to do there?

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:09 pm

I was the main quality engineer for water pumps, so didn't get involved with clutches too much although I was often in the test room with Medwyn and Steve. I was there '05 to '07.

The burst tester was an impressive bit of kit, I remember someone brought some carbon fibre brake discs for a Porsche to be tested - not much left after they went bang!

christhelion · Post by **christhelion** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:46 pm

mat_fenwick wrote:I was the main quality engineer for water pumps, so didn't get involved with clutches too much although I was often in the test room with Medwyn and Steve. I was there '05 to '07.

The burst tester was an impressive bit of kit, I remember someone brought some carbon fibre brake discs for a Porsche to be tested - not much left after they went bang!

I saw the water pumps on test actually when I was there. I can't remember much about that day, except the guy with the tricked up Yamaha R6 - all done up like Rossi's bike. He said if he saw it on the telly, it had to go on that bike. Or the closest he could get to it.

His pictures also showed his squared off tyres with huge chicken strips either side :)He also had an Astra GTE or something at sometime. I can't remember which of the guys that was. Then the other one was less of a wide boy

and liked marine engineering. They go with such a bang do big old cast clutches