Starter solonoid overhaul

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Mike E (uk)
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Starter solonoid overhaul

Post by Mike E (uk) » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:19 pm

Hi,
I think my starter solonoid is playing up.

Sometimes the starter spins the engine nicely, other times (usually when it is cold) it just clicks a bit.

Hitting it with a rod cures the problem.

If I take the starter off, is it possible to overhaul the solonoid bit or will I need some new parts for it or any machining?

I want to plan my week in advance if I can't get it done in one evening.

Mike

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Post by AlanS » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:31 am

Mike,

Solenoids on these starters are ultra reliable (contrary to popular belief). The symptoms you have are similar to a solenoid, but the biggest problem with these is the location of the carbon brushes in that instead of the commutator being part of the complete internal rotor, they are operating off the end plate onto what appears to be the rear of the commutator as you can see in this pic.

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/attach ... 1116233996

What happens is that the brushes are spring loaded to maintain pressure on the commutator but by their very nature, they tend to exert more pressure to one part of the rear of the brush than the other, as a result they wear on a slight angle and occasionally, depending on how & where they stop, they are not touching well enough to give the satarter the "boot" to kick it over and as a result, if you give the actual starter a hit with something, they usually drop back into a position that gives them enough face area to then start.

I did this write up a while back when I did mine:

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23512

A guy over here did the job last week and found as I did that it is quite a simple job if done systematically and saved him about A$500 in the process.

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31490


Alan S
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Post by Vanny » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:38 am

Is that just the old starter solenoids that are reliable?

I've been using the new style motor (fancy small black affair) for many years and have found them to be pretty good, and it seems only the bushes in the starter wear out. The solenoid seems to be a sealed unit anyway! Have you any experience with these Alan?


i get caught with the same problem everytime i try to recon a starter, no where to buy the brushes!

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:38 am

I have had this problem on my Mk 1, when I put a multimeter on the solenoid wire I found I had about 6 volts! the solution was to fit a relay into that circuit.
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Post by jeremy » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:28 am

I think the diesel starters from TD onwards are high tech Mitsubisi ones with a reduction gearing system. My experience has been that they are reliable but no doubt will suffer from the sticky brush problem and operate on 2 rather than 4 with the consequent reduction of power as only half the motor is working.

A good clean may work wonders - and sometimes I have known the end plate to work loose and was able to cure it by tightening in situ!. (Ford Cortina 2000GT)

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Post by tom » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:50 pm

I'm with Jeremy on this. It is USUALLY the sticking of one brush and a strip and clean works wonders for no money at all.

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Post by AlanS » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:25 pm

If you're going to do the job on a 16V, you want to be sure you've got it right the first time. I've just been reminded of what a wonderful thing the starters are to get to as I'm in the middle of a top end rebuild (following up "tradesmen") on an Mi16
If I were not intending to replace the brushes, I'd lap them in on a piece of glass using say about 800 grade wet & dry paper and kero so as to at least square the ends off.
The one reason I always use new brushes is that the new ones come ib a kit which includes fresh springs which are slightly different to the originals which is what I have always believed caused the problem in the first place,

AS regards the early/late models; I can only speak for the older types and whilst I did have the later Mitsubishi style that I used as a replacement on a CX once, I found the older ones were a solider construction overall. The newer ones seemed to work better (spin faster) but were only a fraction of the size of the originals in all departments.


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Post by Mike E (uk) » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:00 am

Thanks for that info guys,

I have fitted a relay for the starter solonoid, and that cured my starter problem in the summer, but it has returned in the cold weather.

Do GSF etc do the brushes for this motor, or is there a better source?

many thanks,

Mike

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Post by AlanS » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:40 am

I order mine via an auto electrician.
It seems over there the auto electricians aren't always keen to order them in apparently, but I think Rosscoe from Scotland may have suggested he might be able to get them off an auto sparky near him IIRC.

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Post by Gareth Wales » Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:00 am

Mike; Have you tried squirting some contact cleaner inside the contact block to be found underneath the battery? It cured my similar starting probs.

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brushes

Post by Toddman » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:48 pm

Think it was me who offered to track down some parts for rossco :D
Mike I am in town on thursday so will make enquiries for you

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Mike E (uk)
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Post by Mike E (uk) » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:17 pm

Thanks again for your help,

Problem solved now.

I removed whole starter as the solonoid finally seized and would not move.

It was a pain to remove because of all the other pipes etc, so I did not want to risk removing that lot twice. I bought a new starter assembly, and it is smaller than the original one.

the motor whizzes over on the starter now, the new one is significantly more powerfull the the old one ever was. :D

Mike

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Post by Cornishbx16v » Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:25 pm

haha! the new 'geared' ones are a lot better arnt they! and significantly smaller too! the old ones are good but when trying to fiddle arround to get it out can start to hurt the wrist! haha!
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