Building oil pressure prior to starting the engine

rmattila · Post by **rmattila** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:54 pm

Has anybody ever thought of fitting a 12 v oil pump at a suitable location so that it could be switched on, allowed to build the sufficient pressure and establish a good circulation, and only then start the engine?

I get this thought every winter, but have so far not gotten any further with it.

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:58 pm

As it would need to be connected to the oil pickup it sounds quite impractical. I'd just go for quality oil instead

rmattila · Post by **rmattila** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:09 pm

JayW wrote:As it would need to be connected to the oil pickup it sounds quite impractical. I'd just go for quality oil instead

At -35 deg C, even quality oils tend to be somewhat suboptimal. And anyway, in an older engine it may take 20 - 30 s even in warm conditions to get the circulation going.

A penetration to the sump as the suction line, then the pump, and the outlet into a suitable place such as the oil pressure sensor hole doesn't sound excessively impractical to me.

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:33 pm

I'd have thought the only place you could suitably prime the oilways from would be the pick-up?

Hadn't considered your extreme temperatures as your motive for asking, thought it was just a general suggestion

How about a heated blanket over the engine?

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:33 pm

I think you'd have to weigh up what the benefits would be, the XUD isn't particularly know for oil pressure related problems and can do massive mileages as standard. I personally think it'd be more of a 'feel good' modification rather than offering a useful improvement.

rmattila · Post by **rmattila** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:40 pm

mat_fenwick wrote:I think you'd have to weigh up what the benefits would be, the XUD isn't particularly know for oil pressure related problems and can do massive mileages as standard. I personally think it'd be more of a 'feel good' modification rather than offering a useful improvement.

Well, I personally think it's a 'feel good' car so it would fit pretty well then?

The problem is, the block heater does a good job heating the waterways, but as the oil in the sump is cold, it takes quite long for the circulation to start. In a recent test, I think the best 0W oils found their way to the camshaft in 30 s or so. If this 30 s pain per start could be eliminated, there might be some possibilitied to further extend the already remarkable life span of the XUD.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:12 pm

How about a cheap and cheerful mod then - fit a kettle element in the sump. If you could make the connections waterproof, and fit a detachable connector somewhere accessible then that should heat the oil reasonably quickly. A timer should stop it from overheating.

The only danger is that with no stirring, the oil make get very hot close to the element and break down chemically.

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:25 pm

You can get 12v kettles

Post by **Defender110** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:41 pm

Why not just fit a kenlow hot start and have the engine up to working temp before starting + you can set it to turn your heater fan on to pre- warm the cabin. I know it doesn't wam the oil but will help reduce cold engine wear considerably.
I have one in my garage that I used to have on my Land Rover 90, fantastic bit of kit for winter.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:42 pm

I think trying to fix a problem that isn't there is a bit of a waste of time. Even high performance engines don't have anything like that, and the XUD is about as far removed from a high performance engine as is possible without getting into plants buildings.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:43 pm

jay wrote:You can get 12v kettles

Have you ever used one? 150-200w, you might as well hold a match under the sump.

EDIT - You wouldn't want to sell the Hotstart would you Kevan? Would be ideal for an LPG vehicle as then you would barely have to run on petrol at all!

rmattila · Post by **rmattila** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:56 pm

They used to sell pressure accumulators to the oil pressure switch union, with a solenoid valve to store the 0,5 l or so of oil in correct pressure for the next start, but I have not seem them for a while. Even though running 30 s without oil won`t do much damage to the engine in the short run, I would still like the idea of first building the pressure and only then putting the steel to move..

rmattila · Post by **rmattila** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:00 am

Kitch wrote:I think trying to fix a problem that isn't there is a bit of a waste of time. Even high performance engines don't have anything like that, and the XUD is about as far removed from a high performance engine as is possible without getting into plants buildings.

..but on the other hand, low-performance naval diesels that are designed for long-lasting service, do..

Oilyspanner · Post by **Oilyspanner** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:12 am

The easiest way to get a little oil pressure before the engine starts is to crank it for a few seconds without waiting for the heater plugs, I had a Diesel fitter mate who did not like the way my BX used to start straight off, he liked the idea of pumping a little oil around before it fired.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:57 am

Interesting topic.

I always check the one way valve in the oil filter before fitting.

I blow and suck gently into the centre threaded hole to test.
"No comments"

I have known filters to fail this test on occasions.

If the valve is slightly leaky, then the oil will run back into the sump overnight.

Try the test again with a new filter after testing the valve.