what do you think guys?

ace_the_bass · Post by **ace_the_bass** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:18 am

a few times lately while ive been driving all my stop lights have come on for a second and then gone out and my oil pressure needle has been abit up and down......a while back the top of my dipstick fell to bits......could the oil be vaporising out of the top of the dipstick then going all over the place causing the low oil pressure and the occasional oil on the drive. im doing 80-100 miles a day so could the broken dipstick be the cause of all the trouble?

Paul296 · Post by **Paul296** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:38 am

Could be filthy/ low LHM as well?

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:52 am

Could be the LHM level float sticking or oil pessure switch failing or just an electrical short that touches something briefly or any of the previously mentioned as well.

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:56 pm

When you say ALL your stop lights, do you really mean that because if you do it sounds like ignition switch problems of putting the lights into test mode or a diode fault in the module itself.

Otherwise you need to observe which particular other light(s) illuminate alongside STOP and investigate that indicated route.

Wrt the dipstick, best to replace it (link to ebay items given recently) and then clean up in the area as well as all electrical connectors that the oil has assisted in the years of corrosion to become a better insulator.

BX Meteor · Post by **BX Meteor** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:59 pm

ace_the_bass wrote:a few times lately while ive been driving all my stop lights have come on for a second and then gone out and my oil pressure needle has been abit up and down......a while back the top of my dipstick fell to bits......could the oil be vaporising out of the top of the dipstick then going all over the place causing the low oil pressure and the occasional oil on the drive. im doing 80-100 miles a day so could the broken dipstick be the cause of all the trouble?

do you have tp keep topping up the engine oil ??

if yes, then you're burning a lot of oil

if no, then the oil level sensor is wacky, keep checking the oil level with the dipstick instead.

I had a dipstick like that on a previous car, I bought a new dipstick, but no the oild does not vaporise out of there, if it did, your engine bay would be black with oil everywhere.

and as the other guys said, check you LHM level (put it to high suspecnsion and check where the float is on the reservoir)

ace_the_bass · Post by **ace_the_bass** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:44 pm

just had the oil filler cap off to put some new oil in and there was an awful cream mess, gloopy horrible stuff all over the top of the filler neck...would post a picture but i dont know how to. is this oil mixing with water, is nasty old oil that has somehow turned a dirty cream colour or is my engine screwed?!

citsncycles · Post by **citsncycles** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:47 pm

Mayonnaise in the oil filler is an indication of water contamination. There are several causes of this, the best is short runs in cold weather - condensation builds up in the oil filler and the rocker / cam cover, them mixes with the oil. Long journeys when the engine gets up to a nice hot temperature gets rid of this.

The worst reason is head gasket or similar allowing the coolant into the engine oil, but this would also mean high water consumption, possible poor performance and possible overheating.

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:08 pm

Right, you seem to be mixing a few things up in this one thread.

1) you will see variations on the oil pressure gauge from when the engine is cold to when it is hot. Also it is normal for the gauge to read lower at tick-over than at speed due to pump speed. If the gauge is reading especially low then the pump may no longer be efficient or you are using an oil of too low a viscosity that is meant for a more modern engine.

2) The "Mayo" you observe in the filler neck is normal on a BX when on short runs but will often have disappeared if you check it after a long fast run. Just use a tongue depresser or similar to ladle it out if it is congealed old stuff. It gets that way because the filler cap is part of the engine breather system.

BX Meteor · Post by **BX Meteor** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:21 pm

and check the oil on your dipstick, the dipstick is the easiest thing to tell you what is going on with your oil, it gives the level, and the quality. If it's filthy black it needs changing, if there is water mixed in the oil on the stick the head has gone (which I doubt). Check the dipstick frequently, this is what they teach these days on the driving test I think.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:52 pm

More info here, as previously stated if all the warning lights are coming on with the stop light then it could be being triggered by the oil pressure switch. The fact your gauge also fluctuates (do the lights all come on when the gauge indicates low pressure?) may mean you have oil pressure problems.

It appears to have been losing oil for a while - what has the filler cap looked like at previous top ups? If it's suddenly started looking emulsified then it's more likely to indicate a problem, unless your type of journey has recently changed.

ace_the_bass · Post by **ace_the_bass** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:38 pm

When ive checked it before there has only been a little bit of gunk, I have done alot of short journeys the past few days and there was alot of it. The red light comes on at the end of the oil pressure gauge together with the stop light radiator ( I think) light...not the coolant light, and one or two others. The oil pressure light comes on and the needle drops right down when cornering/braking hard etc etc.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:18 pm

Sounds like it is indicating low pressure - does it ever come on when not cornering/braking/accelerating? If not then my money would be on low oil level - with no dipstick how sure are you that the level is correct?

BX Meteor · Post by **BX Meteor** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:39 am

Do not rely on the instrument cluster to diagnose the problem, use the dipstick. If you want to keep that car, get one ASAP.

The following applies to BX carb cars (may be same for EFI)

On the circuit diagram below:
-855 is the water temp switch which connects to the water temp light (aka "the red light of death") and also has a diode to pull on the STOP lamp
-237 is the water level sensor which connects to the water level light and also has a diode to pull on the STOP lamp.
-235 and 236 are LHM pressure and LHM level switches respectively, they both connect to the LHM light and there is a diode to pull on the STOP lamp

So far so good, but the oil warning circuitry was designed by someone who now works for the Taliban.
-650 is the oil pressure switch which connects to the oil pressure warning light and also has a diode to pull on the STOP lamp, however it also has two other diodes (which I've circled in red) that will also pull on the water level and the LHM warnings lights

i.e.
-if the water "red light of death" light comes on, the STOP lamp will also come on
-if the water level sensor light comes on, the STOP lamp will also come on
-if the LHM light comes on, the STOP lamp will also come on
-if the oil pressure light comes on, the STOP lamp and the water level light and the LHM light will all come on. IIRC the owners manual does not say this.

Sorry to be blunt, but ....
Put 2 litres of oil in your car now, otherwise your big ends will go, repeat, put 2 litres of oil in your car now, otherwise your big ends will go
And, get a new dipstick.

If anyone wants to check this out, pull the lead off the oil pressure switch (it's about 10cm above the oil filter) and use a wire to earth the lead. Then start the engine and most of the warning light will remain on. I think the reason they designed it this way was so the army didn't realise that the IED is in the big end shells.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:45 am

I think the other reason is that when you turn the key to the ignition position before starting the engine, most of the warning lights are tested by virtue of there being no oil pressure.

BX Meteor · Post by **BX Meteor** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:34 pm

/\ it's a crude and nasty way of doing that.

I've never had another car that brings on all the warning lights when the oil pressure drops when driving.

Someone may say "but if the STOP light comes on, you should STOP", but, if all the STOP lights come on momentarily, and you stop and they do not come on again, you carry on driving. If this keeps happening, you take it to a dealer ....However, when a car is 4th or 5th or 6th hand, people will not take it to a dealer. I bet 100's of BX's had big end failure and were scrapped because of this.

We had an "E" reg that my wife used, she did about 20k miles per year, and when it reached 80k we decided not to use the useless Citroen dealers any more. At about 120k she told me one day that the warning lights kept coming on, I took it out and they did so when I went round corners. I was puzzled by this, I looked in the owners book and there was nothing about multiple warning lights, so I looked at the circuit diagram and worked out it was oil level. I checked the oil level on the dipstick and it was nearly off the bottom of the dipstick. I put 2 litres of oil in, which brought the level half way between low and full on the dipstick. The car had started to use a lot of oil, and continued to use about a litre per 1k miles, we traded it at 150k for a brand new Renault Scenic for her to drive (which is still going now).

Here are the pages from the "E" reg owners book

and these from my current "K" reg owners book

Nowhere does it mention that the oil pressure light will also bring on other warning lights !!!

Someone may say that an owner should regularly check and maintain everything, but not everyone can, or does. As a club, we should be aware of this, and if we want to "save" BX's then we should accept that these extra diodes are a cheap and nasty Citroen idea.

I'm not surprised that ace_the_bass is confused, because as I say, even when I had a dipstick on our "E" reg, I was confused .... and all the replies to ace_the_bass also show confusion about all his lights coming on.

If I could be arsed, I would remove the diodes from the link to the oil pressure, and bring them out to a "push to test" button.

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what do you think guys?

what do you think guys?

Re: what do you think guys?