Window surround paint code

[Tinkley]

There is no 'Black', all the 'Blacks' available actually have a colour in them. The trick is discerning the colour. All the Black paint specs are variations of some manufacturers black pigments.
Quite a nice one that also might give the grey with the addition of a little white is RAL 9011 Graphiteshwarz. If you have a good local paint supplier who will tweak colours he/she should let you see the difference between say a black from PPG or a black from ICI Automotive. They will NOT be the same. The RAL standard is the German equivalent of BS and they have some nice colours in the range.
Get the paint guy to get out his/her largest swatch of the various blacks and put it against the window frame.

The paint system on BX is almost definitely an acrylic/polyurethane blend possibly with an epoxy undercoat primer. Personally I won't use cellulose as the BX was a post cellulose generation car as was the Visa. Same with red oxide ( a much older generation product), I much prefer a 2K epoxy on bare metal, you can buy marine versions from chandlers or good paint suppliers. Obviously the metallics have a clear laquer overcoat.

If you are trying to get the semi-matt finish you need about 4-5 times as much matting agent in acrylic as you do cellulose. I mixed loads of semi matts (just not in car colours) and I was surprised just how much you need to add.

[Vanny]

According to my paint man, EXX is actually a Peugeot colour. He couldn't find it in the Citroen lists but did find it in the Peugeot lists. I had him make mine up in a 2k matt spray can and to my eye its a near perfect match to what is currently on my doors. As I'll do all the door frames at the same time, I'm not too concerned if the colour doesn't quite match the original.

[citsncycles]

Personally I won't use cellulose as the BX was a post cellulose generation car as was the Visa

As far as off the shelf spray cans are concerned at least, virtually all of them these days seem to be an acrylic based paint anyway. I'm not even sure if paint specialists will sell cellulose to you these days because of the EU restrictions on it. I know the paint shop my parents use in Ireland has awitched to acrylic because of this.

Anyway, sounds like when I get that far I'll be taking a trip to Middletons to get a can or 2 mixed up, especially as it looks like I'll have to do this to match the original paint on the rest of the car - they just don't seem to do the right shade of blue off the shelf!

[mat_fenwick]

RAL 9011 (from the Google image search I did) might be close, but obviously reproduction on a laptop screen has its limitations. Sadly there's no paint suppliers nearby, and difficult to get to one in woring hours (80 mile round trip) so realistically has to be mail order

According to my paint man, EXX is actually a Peugeot colour. He couldn't find it in the Citroen lists but did find it in the Peugeot lists. I had him make mine up in a 2k matt spray can and to my eye its a near perfect match to what is currently on my doors. As I'll do all the door frames at the same time, I'm not too concerned if the colour doesn't quite match the original.

I'm not too bothered about matching, so long as it's not obvious. I think a shade that a layman would call black would look too dark against the roof rails, which match quite well the unfaded grey inside the door shuts. Any chance of a close-up photo please? Or maybe I'll see it at Stratford? And did you go for full on matt rather than satin? That would be more forgiving of surface imperfections...

[Kitch]

My red 16v is a dark grey rather than black, as is my dad's GT. The estate is a lighter grey.

For the record, the guy doing the GT's respray HAD to order the paint in celluose form as that was the only way it was available. Pretty sure the BX was celluose new, or at least around the time of the mk1.

[Tinkley]

I've not run into the 'only available in cellulose' thing yet. However most modern (post 2010 and earlier) factory paint systems are water based acrylics, mostly over an epoxy primer which is sometmes applied by dipping the shell. Sometimes more like powder coating using electrostatic properties.

Hope the cellolose does not flake off as there are serious compatibilty problems between systems. The safest is a one pack acrylic which seems to sit on any substrate. I have seen more than a few boat and vehicle disaster refinishing jobs which start perfect but a couple of months down the line... the worst are marine varnishes. If I don't know what the varnish is I always use a single polyurethane. It will apply OK over older alkyds and newer 2k finishes.

I would be surprised if one of the main paint companies ie PPG, Glasurit etc cannot mix a colour in 2k acrylic. There are issues trying to match Pantones - about 30% you can't in paint. It may be legislation on the availability of 2k paints and the VOCs'. Generally the problems have been getting the newer water based paints to have a decent colour range. They originally had a very very small number of reliable colours.

I would still think the BX had an acrylic system because you have to paint dough moulded bonnet/tailgate and EPDM polypropylene bumpers as well as steel. Hard to believe the older cellulose paints could do that. Also the BX was the first Citroen not to rust like a demon. Combination of better draining and better paint, almost all European car makers improved their paint quality in the early to mid 80s'.

I have been almost unable to buy clear cellulose laquer (for guitar finishing) for almost a decade. It is available but not easily.

[mat_fenwick]

I bought a RAL coulour swatch in the end, and the best (almost perfect) match I could find for the original unfaded colour was RAL7021. I've just bought two Rustoleum Combicolour aerosols in a satin finish, as I was very pleased with the coverage when I used that for the van.

When it's daylight again I'll see if I can find a match for the blacker shade on the two hatchback doors I have, for future reference.

[Defender110]

Recently re-did the 1990 TZD estate with THIS - cheap but worked a treat. Probably blacker than original but since the original had faded to white in most areas it's near enough for me. Made a huge difference to the general look of the car.

Me too on the boot lid spoiler of my TGD, turned out perfect, this is a one pack acrylic and very easy to use, very quick drying and gives a perfect factory like finish with a nice satin sheen.

[Tinkley]

Checked out RAL 9021. Interestingly its a German military camouflage black! Good to know you got a decent match.

Our own BS 381C colour standard is similarly all military/navy/air colours. In the first Gulf war you could see all the aircraft and tanks painted 'Dusky Pink' .......wholly or partly. It is used because it matches sandy deserts in the morning and evening when air reconnaissance looks for shadows to find targets. My dads old house was painted with it inside, all surplus from WW2 when he originally bought it from the US Air Force!.

Ooops sorry 'bout the typo 7021 it is!. 7021 is not as far as I am aware a military colour but it might be!

Charlottes right, screen colour even with colour correct monitor etc are ALWAYS different

Hope you find the swatches Mat, and try and keep them out of sunlight so they stay correct for longer.

[mat_fenwick]

It's actually 7021, which looks much greyer on-line than on the swatch I have. I shall have to wait and see what the paint looks like, but comparing the printed 6019 with the actual paint on the van I feel pretty confident.

I did wonder why pink was used as a desert camouflage!

[Charlotte]

Oooh, never trust a display (I'm assuming when you say "on-line" you're viewing it in a screen?)! Ever! The limits of RGB go nowhere near print. You have to see a swatch. Even if the swatch looks off, the chances of the screen display being better are slim - it would be pure guesswork really.

Have a look at websites describing the RGB colour model, and look for the colour triangle - the triangle in the middle is what you see on an RGB display, and the rest is what you can achieve with print etc.

Apologies if I'm teaching my grandmother here, but I'm a bit of a nerd xx

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

[mat_fenwick]

Yeah, I wouldn't go on the screen shade - I was just pre-empting any comments of "that looks far too light a grey". Sadly I think I left my recently acquired selection of swatches on the car roof this morning, so I suspect I will find it, shredded, somewhere on my way home this evening

[Charlotte]

Nooooooo! It was beautiful... I hope you are mistaken! X

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

[mat_fenwick]

Bugger. Five days after ordering the paint (with a 2-3 day delivery time) I've just got an email saying that "RAL7021 is not available as an aerosol - the closest match would be RAL7016 as a special order with a minimum order quantity of 6." I may still go for that depending what the match is like, but I feel it will be too light from memory. If it is acceptable, anybody want to buy the excess?

[Tinkley]

Mat, you should be able to find a paint supplier who will do 1/4 ltr of 2k to the colour. Of course you need the hardener and at a pinch std cellulose thinners (which you probably have) to make up a sprayable mix.
You can even brush/roller it and cut back later. Can you borrow a sprayer?, mine is rubbish but it does get the paint on, if you were closer I'd lend it.
With fast air dry hardener it could be cut back in about 4hrs from brushing maybe less to get a flat coat. Farecla G3 will cut back from around 800-1000 grit wet/dry to polish up.