Front Sub Frame woes

hvanman · Post by **hvanman** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:16 am

Hi, I am wondering if I am jinxed on BX ownership..... After the 19RD disaster, the expensive 17 Turbo estate (and non-existant part of the deal spares) has now had a major disaster.

On a round trip to Harwich (following hitting yet another nasty pothole) the N/S suspension and brakes felt very strange. On checking this morning, the sub frame has broken in two places and is bent.... I can't afford to scrap the car, so need some advice please....

1. Are the sub frames common, or do I need one from an identical car?

2. Is changing the front sub frame a do-able job, or am I going to run into major re-alignment challenges (beyond the other work which I guess includes removing the engine etc?)

3. I may be able to strip a sub frame from a scrap car (model unknown at present), if not, does anyone have a front sub frame.

I will also take it down to my local mechanic just in case he can weld it up, but it looks too awkward to me and may be difficult to straighten out enough to get the alignment back.....

All advice very welcome

Thanks, Simon.

KevR · Post by **KevR** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:49 am

Not 100% sure, but I think the subframes are the same - at least for the larger engine versions. My 1987 TRS 1.6 petrol subframe looked identical to my TD ones and accepted all the TD bits when I converted that car to TD.
Subframe's only mounted via a couple of bolts to the floor and a couple of mounts each side, from memory, plus the engine mounts, and it's easy enough to detach everything and lift the car off the whole engine/transmission/subframe assembly. Alternatively you might be able to leave the engine in and drop the subframe out from under - not sure. I'd be inclined to take the lot out and take the opportunity to clean everything up and check stuff like the octopus, heater hoses, clutch cable etc – all the stuff that's a bastard to get at with the TDs.
If you've got to pay someone to do it, then it's probably not going to be economically viable, but if you can bribe some mates with beer to give you a hand then it's probably do-able in a weekend or so. There shouldn't be any major alignment issues (so long as the mounts on the body are still where they're supposed to be...), but only a proper check after fitting will show whether it needs a tweak.

Post by **Tim Leech** » Mon May 07, 2012 12:38 pm

I have a good used front subframe,complete with with some ancillaries.

hvanman · Post by **hvanman** » Mon May 07, 2012 1:24 pm

PM sent.

Does anyone have any advice on the work involved in changing?

Oilyspanner · Post by **Oilyspanner** » Mon May 07, 2012 3:04 pm

I changed one a while ago, not as bad as you might think, everything stays on the car and the subframe lowers away, there is a good opportunity to replace the octopus at the same time too, you will never see it this clearly again, as said all larger engines are the same and MK2 subframes will fit Mk1 cars.

hvanman · Post by **hvanman** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:23 pm

Thanks. The book says that the anti-roll bar needs a special Citroen tool to re-fit it, is this true?

I guess changing the octopus would be a good idea. Are they still available and if so, where could I get one?

Cheers.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » Mon May 07, 2012 5:06 pm

yep the engine only attaches to the sub frame by its lower stabilizer bush,

as the main engine and box mountings are attached at the top of both inner wings, so with the sub frame removed the engine and box hang on there mounts as they do with the car all together,

also if your second hand sub frame comes complete with anti roll bar you wont need to remoe that either,

you also undo the two rack bolts from underneath which leaves the rack in situe,

there were three diferent sub frames,
two very early ones one is for the suitcase type engine which sits on the sub frame with its mounts,

the second is with taper bearings were the front arms attach,

this will fit your car and any with the engine hanging from the inner wings, but they are probably a bit hard to get hold off these days,

then there is the usual one fitted to all the other model/engine types,

regards malcolm

hvanman · Post by **hvanman** » Mon May 07, 2012 5:19 pm

That does not sound too bad then, although I suspect access is going to be fun, as I don't have a 4 post lift sadly...

smiffy1071 · Post by **smiffy1071** » Wed May 09, 2012 7:04 am

A 4 post lift wouldn't be that much use to you in any case for this job!!!

Some sturdy axle stands under the body, a decent trolley jack and somewhere to work out of the rain are what's needed!!

hvanman · Post by **hvanman** » Wed May 09, 2012 8:17 am

Sadly workin out of the rain is unlikely, it's the drive or no where.... and I have to liberate my trolly jack from under the h van, having just broken the throttle linkage that forms part of the engine mount!! Still, at least the job does not sound as horrible as I first thought!

bx petrol auto saloon · Wed May 09, 2012 2:50 pm

Dear Simon.
So sorry to hear about your front subframe problems Simon

I
have a fairly new 2 1/2 ton trolley jack and a fairly new 1 ton collapsable
engine crane aswell, you could borrow, but I don,t think they would be of
much use to you on this job Simon.
What I would do, if I were in your position of changing the front
subframe, having the car ( if your driveway is flat enough ) on 4 axle
stands, without the car being " too " unstable. and making yourself a
small subframe sized frame, out of, say new fence posts, with obviously
some sort of battening, to hold them all together with another small peice
of wood or metal preferably to put on top of your trolley jack head.
I am at home all day everyday Simon, so If you need to have a
natter over it, please feel free to do so OK

I hope this helps Simon.
All The Best.
Vince.

hvanman · Post by **hvanman** » Thu May 10, 2012 8:36 am

Dear Vince,

Many thanks for the kind offer on the equipment, luckily I don't think this job needs them from what I have heard so far...... My drive is not very flat, but if I can get the H van fixed and out of the way then I should get a flat'ish area. My main concern is supporting the body at the front without damage to it, so I will need to check that out carefully.

It seems that actually not too much is fixed to the sub frame so hopefully a full frame won't be needed but a good idea all the same.

Cheers, Simon.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » Thu May 10, 2012 7:27 pm

you can support the car on axle stands with a piece of wood on top of them under the chassis rail just behind the sub frame,
mind you choke the rear wheels after the suspension has fully depressurised as the hand brake is on the front,

regards malcolm

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Front Sub Frame woes

Front Sub Frame woes

Front Subframe Woes