handbrake cable adjustment - advice needed!

[tim]

The White One's handbrake has been up on its last click for months, only just holding - not good. I had to change mine last week so decided to look at the other one as well. I knew the cables had been fitted about four years ago, and the garage said that the height of the lever was something they couldn't do a lot about due to the calipers. But something had to be done so I started by changing the cables; ordered and arrived in identical packets. one with a blue sleeve protector and one black, number FKB 1003. So I whacked 'em on, and it was obvious that the toggle by the brake lever wasn't parallel. And the lever was still pretty high, and one caliper wasn't biting so well. I ordered another cable, and have have now started to fit this. However, some questions arise - Haynes being useless.
1) Why does the top end link/toggle have to be parallel?? If it has a slight bias to one side, so what? As long as both cables are set up properly and have the same amount of free play on each one, then the brakes should come on at exactly the same time regardless of whether or not the arm is exactly at 90 degrees to fore-and-aft. Am I wrong?
2) The most important one. Once the cables are mounted up, and the caliper arms are returning to their stops, how much slack can I take up with the threaded adjusters? This will obviously reduce lever travel meaning the brake will be fully on; equally obviously, if you are careless and overdo it, you'll finish up with a caliper seizing on. So - is there a measurement I can use for free play before the brake bites? I've got the wheels off and want to get this finished asap.
I could guess and might well get away with it but would rather hear the gospel from the experts. To my eye with the caliper levers returned fully there seems to be far more free play than is necessary so my gut feeling would be to take up some slack. But what do you say?
Once I've done this job, if things don't improve the calipers will need to be looked at but first things first. Over to you guys! The wife tried Citronut's resetting method today but it didn't do anything.

[Discoil]

If I'm wrong ,someone will be along to say so.

With both cables on , I set the play or lack of it at the two locknut ends. Enough movement to move the end but not enough to bind.
Both sides should be set up to be similar and that's where the bar inside needs to be right.
Citronut adjustment and then make sure that both wheels/ hubs aren't binding

6 to 8 clicks at the lever is ok

[citronut]

naa 3 to 5 clocks at the lever

before adjusting/setting up the cables even before hooking the cable onto the caliper arm,
on level ground with engine running press hard on the brake pedal 3 to 4 times (BUT DON'T STAMP ON THE PEDAL )

this will/should set the hand brake mechanism in the caliper's, then hook the cables onto the caliper arms and pull the outer cable as if you are trying to disengage it from the eye in the caliper body, but not to hard now whilst holding the cable there wind the adjuster nut up to the caliper body, then lock the lock nut up,

the toggle the cables hook onto in the car is a compensator and is meant to be equal, or as close as you can get it

your always welcome to drop by my workshop for me to check it

regards malcolm

[tim]

OK! Think that's what I'm after. I have no probs setting up cables after 30 years of 'em on motorcycles. What I really need to know is if it is acceptable to reduce the free play on the caliper lever by using the adjuster nuts on the cables, and if so by how much. If I've read you right, Malcolm, when looking down at the lever from the side you can have it anywhere between 5 o'clock back down to 3... binding permitting! Like I said, common sense would give me a ballpark setting but I wanted to know if there was some reason to do with Citroens or that particular system that meant the arms had to stay at their full travel.
Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know how it goes when I've changed the other cable.

[citronut]

the lever on the caliper MUST NOT be pulled by the cable at all when the hand brake lever in the car is in its fully off position,

also the mechanism in the caliper will not adjust up by pressing on the pedal if the levers on the caliper are not fully off,

regards malcolm

[tim]

OK.cool - that's why I queried that, obviously we crossed wires. So take up any free play, and leave it at that. If this doesn't work and the brake lever goes up to its full pull height, then presumably there is a caliper issue.....

[citronut]

OK.cool - that's why I queried that, obviously we crossed wires. So take up any free play, and leave it at that. If this doesn't work and the brake lever goes up to its full pull height, then presumably there is a caliper issue.....

if this happens adjust the calipers as i said earlier, apart from the bit about disconnecting the cables from the caliper,


regards malcolm

ps.
it would have been quicker to drop by my workshop

[tim]

Well, job done but results not perfect. The toggle is level now that the incorrect cable has been replaced, and there is plenty of thread available on the adjusters(the old cables were wound out as far as they could go). I've done the adjuster thing with the pedal twice, but it hasn't changed anything. The conclusion has to be that the mechanism inside the calipers ain't working no more; if I'm not allowed to reduce the travel at the caliper end by means of the adjusters then there's nothing more to be done! The brake has about 13 clicks and although it's holding it's still too high for comfort.
Thanks for the offer, Malcolm, but it's a bit of a trek to the South Coast....I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of it. The scrappy provided a pair of calipers so I'll rebuild them (assuming one can still get the appropriate kits??) and do a swap.

[citronut]

Tim im sure you have told me were your located before but i think im having a senior moment, but you signiture says your in East Sussex,

im at the very bottom end of the A21,

regards malcolm

[tim]

I'm right down the lane from Mothperson......

[citronut]

thats Andy Andy

only just oop t road then

regards malcolm