TD massive over revving / runaway... blown turbo and engine

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smiffy1071
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Re: TD massive over revving...

Post by smiffy1071 »

Chris, do you remember when this happened on my car last year?

I started the car to let the engine warm up before leaving work, and after a few mins the engine started to rev up dramatically. Luckily I was still sat in the car, and suspecting a run-away pump, I stalled the engine before things got out of hand.
Chris kindly came back to work. and removed the intercooler to injection pump pipe, and put a bolt in the end with a jubilee clip which at least made the car driveable, but totally gutless!

I took the rad out so you could fit the replacement diaphragm.
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themildbunch
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Re: TD massive over revving...

Post by themildbunch »

Another Lucas weakness then... not sure how long it raced for but probably not more than 20 secs although apparently it seemed like forever!

The engine sounds ok on idle - hope the turbo bearings haven't gone from this though...

Just got off the phone to DTM - apparently you can't get the diaphragm on it's own - comes as part of a kit at £140 + VAT - too many people not changing it correctly or replacing the spring etc and making warranty returns so you have to by a the whole lot..

I think I'll cannibalise my spare pump that that been reconditioned for now.

Radiator removal does look like the best way...
1988 BX 19 Gti 16v
1991 BX 17 TZD Estate
1991 BX 17 TZD Estate
bill o
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Re: TD massive over revving...

Post by bill o »

i still have another lucas pump which you could have for postage costs,could save stripping the recon one.---bill
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Re: TD massive over revving...

Post by docchevron »

themildbunch wrote:Another Lucas weakness then... not sure how long it raced for but probably not more than 20 secs although apparently it seemed like forever!

The engine sounds ok on idle - hope the turbo bearings haven't gone from this though...

Just got off the phone to DTM - apparently you can't get the diaphragm on it's own - comes as part of a kit at £140 + VAT -
20 seconds? Blimey, I wouldn't be surprised if a valve had touched a piston or 2, but if it runs I think you were lucky!
Doubt it's killed the turbo, they are fairly robust.

You cant get the original style diaphragm no, the replacement is a modified unit hence you need the whole kit. Although once modified you can get new diaphragms for them at a reasonable £19.
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...
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Re: TD massive over revving...

Post by themildbunch »

Finally got around to dealing with this - took the rad out and got the old diaphragm out. Not quite the catastrophic split I was expecting but definately split:

Image

Still a fiddly job but not really difficult - I ended up removing the oil cooler hoses too just don't drop the little cap headed screws down there!

Just putting it all back together now...
Last edited by themildbunch on Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
1988 BX 19 Gti 16v
1991 BX 17 TZD Estate
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Re: TD massive over revving...

Post by themildbunch »

mmm... found a big gotcha...

don't attempt this job with a magnetic pickup tool and mirror!
after putting most of it back together I found this: nestling in the crap around the oil cooler:

Image

Managed to fish it out with a magnetic thing and double checked with my spare pump in case it had fallen out which of course it had! Due to the angle of the pump on the car this little plunger will drop very easily so beware!
In the end I've put it on hold as my spare diaphragm, while not split, has what looks like the signs of the rubber starting to crack so I think I'll stump up the cash for the correct new unit... Lucas 9100-633
Last edited by themildbunch on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1988 BX 19 Gti 16v
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ghaddon1701
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Re: TD massive over revving...

Post by ghaddon1701 »

Does your car now go a lot better?

Regards Graham
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Re: TD massive over revving...

Post by themildbunch »

I'm sure it will... Won't have the part 'til Monday though...
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Re: TD massive over revving...

Post by docchevron »

themildbunch wrote:Finally got around to dealing with this - took the rad out and got the old diaphragm out. Not quite the catastrophic split I was expecting but definately split:

Image

Still a fiddly job but not really difficult - I ended up removing the oil cooler hoses too just don't drop the little cap headed screws down there!

Just putting it all back together now...

Every one I've seen that hs failed looks EXACTLY like that. Shiny new one looks a bit different and I'm told they dont fail.. At least, of the many I've changed so far, not one has come back yet!
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...
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Re: TD massive over revving... not so good update..

Post by themildbunch »

OK - got the new shiny boost kit for the lucas pump:

Image

Got it all back together, pipes on, rad in, coolant bleed...

Car starts and appears to run ok - apart from clouds of grey / blue smoke on boost.. Doesn't seem to smoke badly on idle at all after it's started though.

Next I wound the boost compensator adjuster all the way in, then out 3 turns and this made it a little more sluggish but the smoke's still there. So at the moment I suspect it's either the turbo seals or the head gasket (again!!!) Although I don't seem to get any cooling system pressurising after a couple of minutes running from stop which I did when the HG went several years ago.

No nasty bearing noises on boost that I can hear..

The oil filter's pretty oily and there has always been some oil in the pipes so maybe the big overrun blew what were already marginal seals on the turbo to begin with.

Really ###cked off with this BX at the moment, although I do have a spare garret turbo off a bx although this one will need reconditioning I think - I've seen rebuild kits available - is this worth trying DIY and then get it balanced by a turbo builder? - Changing them doesn't look easy though :(
1988 BX 19 Gti 16v
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Re: TD massive over revving... blown turbo

Post by themildbunch »

Not really got much further with this -

I need to do a compression check before deciding my next move.

Looking at around £250 for an exchange Garrett T2 and had about 6 hours quoted for changing the turbo, although as the headgasket had been done with the head skimmed about 18 months ago I'd assume the manifolds and turbo would have been removed then so maybe it'll all come undone with less stress?

Given that the clutch will need doing pretty soon too it would make sense to me to remove then whole engine and box and then have all that lovely space to deal with the octopus, etc but this would probably turn into a never ending DIY project for me at the moment and I could do with the car back on the road fairly soon..

Anyone replaced a turbo on one of these? Are the Haynes modified tools really necessary?

I just dragged this post up from the grave:
Stewart (oily!) wrote:It is possible to swap the turbo without taking the engine out, remove top mount, radiator, support sump on jack, top of motor with engine crane, lean engine forward and reach behind to remove inlet manifold, then loosen exhaust manifold nuts, then wind another nut on and back them together, this means you can remove the manifold studs completely, after removing the oil feed and return lines the turbo can be removed complete with manifold, reassembly is the reversal etc.
Stewart
Doesn't sound too bad a job described like that - Once both manifolds are off am I right in thinking the turbo etc can then be removed upwards?
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Re: TD massive over revving... blown turbo

Post by docchevron »

it's slightly easier to remove the OS driveshaft and drop the complete manifold with turbo attached out the bottom really
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...
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Re: TD massive over revving... blown turbo and engine

Post by themildbunch »

Thanks Doc - but the news is not good...

Ran the engine up to temperature, been difficult to start recently and a bit worse since the overrun..
Removed all the glowplugs - this is what they looked like and hadn't been in more than 18 months and they were Beru ones too:

Image

Is this burning out caused by dodgy injectors or the heat generated in the run away? Doesn't really matter now as I did a compression check and even with my nasty, cheap eBay tester it seems pretty conclusive.

No.1 (nearest the cambelt) barely made 100psi, all the others made about 380psi.

Think I'm looking at new engine and turbo or do a 1.9TD engine conversion or look for another TD estate... :(
1988 BX 19 Gti 16v
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Re: TD massive over revving... blown turbo and engine

Post by mike22861 »

Few years ago I had a Red BX 17 turbo estate (oddly enough bought from a guy in Chelmsford) do exactly the same thing Id filled it up and gone to a friends with a 1 in 3 driveway I reversed in and left it about an hour.

As it was in a the middle of a village i set off and the car did a mile or so in the 30 mph with no problem soon as i got to the 40 mph zone and the turbo started to suck I noticed the road behind vanished in clouds of white smoke. Fortunately it had only just started to boost so no throttle a few miles of steady driving cleared it. There was luckily no harm done car ran fine for another year or so until both rear radius bearings failed along with a lot of other small items and away it went for recycle (please note BXs were around 100-200 quid each in those days you didnt fix you just bought another.
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Re: TD massive over revving... blown turbo and engine

Post by themildbunch »

On the slow road now to recovery for this BX...

I'm not 100% sure yet if the low compression on one cylinder is piston, valve or both related at the moment but before the new engine arrives I'm going to get a spare head, checked, skimmed and rebuilt.

The head I have was from a batch of eBay spares from a scrapped BX TD - so I'm assuming it's from an A8A engine but how can I be 100% sure it's the right head? I can post some pictures but there's very few markings on the casting.
1988 BX 19 Gti 16v
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