LPG or Diesel.... The Great Debate!

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Ian_Fearn
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LPG or Diesel.... The Great Debate!

Post by Ian_Fearn » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:36 pm

I've been racking my brains this evening (whilst out with the girlfriend!) whether to convert a BX14 or 16 to LPG or go for a diesel instead.

Just wondered if anybody else has had these kind of thoughts? I keep seeing plenty of nice BX14's around with the nice and simple TU engine and it gets me thinking :idea:

Every month that goes by i'm 400quid poorer for running the GTi :cry:

I must admit i do like the rev range of a petrol motor :twisted:
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M

Post by M » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:44 pm

Ian - its going to KERCHIIIIING you silly money to convert a petrol BX to LPG, unless you do it yourself and have second hand kit. I mean you are looing at about £800 - £1000, and as the BX is so old, you wont get a grant.

Go for a diesel - £300 should get you a decent enough one, £500 for a very good one. My TZD has set me back all told about £400, but there was a LOT of it replaced / repaired. It has the advantage of having and almost rust free body, so I felt it was worth the expense.

Expect 45 - 60MPG depending on driving style & engine from a DERV

Plus you could always use "bio" diesel (at about 46p/L from Lidl)

On the other hand you might just hit it lucky and find an LPG converted car already - but ensure its got the relevant gas inspection certificates, or it will be uninsurable.

My AX gives me 65 ish MPG. Its bloody horrid, but frugal.

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Post by Ian_Fearn » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:23 am

It looks like around the 400quid mark for good a DIY kit with all the necessary instructions although i must admit it dont look hard.

I've heard all sorts of 'wild' economy claims from diesel owners, somebody i spoke to last week claimed nearly 70mpg!

Whether that is true or not I seriously doubt i'll be getting any more than mid 40's out of one. A friend with a TZD says he pretty much always gets 46mpg which sound about right to me.

I'm away with work for the next couple of days so i'll do some sums and see what it works out at.
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M

Post by M » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:33 am

Ian, like I said - if you do decide to convert your own car to LPG, make sure you can insure it afterwards as insurers will not touch a car unless it has a gas inspection certificate.

Just been quoted £50 to insure the BX for one month TPO! Twatmangle ::evil:

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Post by Vanny » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:05 am

Ha ha marty, thats bloody rediculous! I got with my mums insurers and insured myself on the AX TPFT for £12 for 2 months! I rule!


Ian, gettin 70+mpg isn't as obsurd as it sounds! I can happily coax arounf 75mpg out of the AX 1.5d and my record on the BX with a 1.9td over about 300 miles was 71.6mpg. That generally averaged about 45 intown and 60 odd when free to actually drive! I figure if you drive the 1.7td just under the turbo range and about 50-55mph for a long enough distance you too can easily achieve 70+mpg.

There is then the obvious addition of vegetable oil to run it on! I can manage to legally use vegetable oil for 27p/litre all in, including conversion to run on any diesel and disposal license and paying tax! LPG is in my mind a load of rollocks. Its certainly no more efficient that petrol, costs a huge amount more to fill up, is still very restricted in where you can fill up (two of my local Shell stations have removed there lpg pumps!), and all in all its a fad! A 1.4bx without all the heavy trim options (electric everything) should happily get economy very close in line to that of a diesel, and almost regardless of how it's driven. You'll also be screwed if you loose the car be it theft, or right off etc, i'm betting insurance wont give you any extra money for a new LPG kit!

So obviously my opinion is get a diesel. Bear in mind these XUD diesels are a design that is some 40+ years old (first released in the 70's), and that even the modern HDi's are based almost completely on the same technology, that MUST say something about both the quality and engineering prowess of the engine!


Diesel or nothing!

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Post by Ian_Fearn » Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:30 pm

Am starting to think that a diesel would be a lot less hassle.

My driving style isnt a 50-55mph style though. Most of my driving is at least 70mph dual carriageway/motorway driving
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Post by M » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:27 pm

Ian_Fearn wrote:My driving style isnt a 50-55mph style though. Most of my driving is at least 70mph dual carriageway/motorway driving
Neither is mine - Typical day in the AX - Morning, route to central clinic via the PPA and another clinic means that I travel the 26 miles into Blackpool via a mixture of A & B roads during the morning rush. Then a typical day of trips out of a few miles each, maybe a trip (A road again) to Fleetwood (9 miles), then home on the M55 then M6 (22 miles). Mix of 10mph crawl to 80mph flog the arse off the AX - feel that driveshaft complain!

And I get 65ish MPG, Used to get 55 ish in the 1.9N/A ZX - and that had a diesel leak.

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Post by Ian_Fearn » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:13 pm

Sounds like i need an AX diesel!!

Theres a black ZX TD Volcane in my local rag tonight. Might give them a bell in the morning.

Got to be worth a look if its local.
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Post by Vanny » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:01 pm

where abouts are you?

I know a Rover Metro diesel going for not a lot. And before you complain that its a rover not a citroen, its got the PSA 1.4diesel lump in it (hell its written on the top if you needed any less proof!

It's been stood for a year so needs some bits and bobs (rad, front n/s spring, tail light) and a wash, but bugger me if it didnt start first time from a flat battery (and another AX 1.5d to give a helping hand)!

Tis red and M reg, but no disternable rust (been dry stored for the time its been off the road!) theink there is a lot of history with it, and it is on 109k miles, but if your interested in a very cheap run around then let me know!

AX diesel is totally gutless low down, simply has no torque! But the under steer is soooo much fun! I've totally changed my mind about the AX, as a city car they are awesome, but just no good for long haul or 'quick' trips!

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Post by Mr B » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:34 pm

Vanny wrote:where abouts are you?

I know a Rover Metro diesel going for not a lot. And before you complain that its a rover not a citroen, its got the PSA 1.4diesel lump in it (hell its written on the top if you needed any less proof!

It's been stood for a year so needs some bits and bobs (rad, front n/s spring, tail light) and a wash, but bugger me if it didnt start first time from a flat battery (and another AX 1.5d to give a helping hand)!

Tis red and M reg, but no disternable rust (been dry stored for the time its been off the road!) theink there is a lot of history with it, and it is on 109k miles, but if your interested in a very cheap run around then let me know!

AX diesel is totally gutless low down, simply has no torque! But the under steer is soooo much fun! I've totally changed my mind about the AX, as a city car they are awesome, but just no good for long haul or 'quick' trips!
How does one fit a N/S front spring to a car with hydrolastic suspension.......?

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Post by Vanny » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:05 pm

your the second person to say that today, does it not have normal springs by the time you got to 1994? i thought they dropped them before the 90's?


hmmm, could be a pain in the ass!

Matt (mrmrwray) should get his ass on here tomorrow and tell you the adventure we had over the last couple of days, but i got a BX back on the road and this metro, which runs very happily!


How does one change hydrogas suspension then? is it one unit?

M

Post by M » Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:12 am

Vanny wrote:your the second person to say that today, does it not have normal springs by the time you got to 1994? i thought they dropped them before the 90's?
Nope - still had the wonderful Moulton Hydrolastic (Hydragas) suspension set up which cried out for a front to rear pipe to link the sides.

Might just be needing a charge up (though if this was the case the whole of one end would be down - i.e. nose down, arse down) One side points to a fooked gas bag. Not the end of the world to change - but I wouldnt want to do it. I have had 3 of the Hydragas cars and one hydrolastic - and the alcohol filled one was much much better - recharging is easy - my dad still has the kit if you need help as he still runs a 100 series Rover.

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Post by Ian_Fearn » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:36 pm

Thanks for the offer Vanny but i'll politely decline.

Its funny how looking for a particular type of car leads to all sorts. I spent most of last night trawling ebay for nice diesel BX and ended up looking at cars from Diahatsu Fourtracks to Suzuki Cappucino's!

Think i'm going MAD!
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Post by Mr B » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:12 pm

If I remember, the Metro has 3 filler points, one for each front corner and a single for the rear axle. I could be wrong as its been a while since I had the misfortune to work on one..........

M

Post by M » Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:21 pm

Mr B wrote:If I remember, the Metro has 3 filler points.
You are exactly right - Ive been to my dads and consulted his BOL and had a rummage under the bonnet - each one looks like a tyre air valve.