Air-con dilemma

[Kitch]

So here's the dilemma....I've decided I'm definitely going to have to sell the grey 16v when it's finished. It has air-con (or the bones of it) which I'd like to remove and fit to my red 16v. Issue is that the grey one needs so much work and time is so tight I'm struggling to finish the car let alone swap air-con over.
Is it actually worth doing is what I'm wondering? Would make life easier to just forget itx but then how many chances to grab an AC system will I ever have again? What you guys reckon?

[JayW]

Vanny is a good source of experience in refitting it as he's put it on Jazz. Me personally, i wouldn't go to the trouble as it's not your daily driver and you're just adding further complexity. It's a nice feature to have if it's already there, but is it worth it?

Besides, you'd have to swap various bits back onto the grey one. Sounds like a lot of effort (especially when you're short on time)!

[toddao]

I have removed a complete system from a wrecker GTI but I had to make quite a mess getting it out as well as best part of a weekend. Now it sits there in amongst of the other 'spare parts' - heaven knows if I'll ever get round to fitting it.

Take comfort from the fact that it's a British summer you're dealing with - more likely to need the heater ( and good windscreen wipers) than cooling!

[Mickey taker]

Richard, this is Britain .

That is all

[Jaba]

If you really are short of time then be realistic and forget all about it.
BUT if you really want a/c in the 16v later then you should invest the time now for the future. There are at the most 2000 BXs left here and how many have aircon that could become potential donors ?
I think you know the probable answer.

The biggest job is to remove the dash(es) and the messiest is sump removal.

I am an aircon fan. People say it aint necessary in our climate but I look at it this way - every time you have to open a window to cool the car down inside is when you would switch on the aircon. Whenever you park in the sun between April and October it is a benefit.
I speak personally of course but once you have had and enjoyed aircon you would never choose to go back.

Decisions,decisions.

[Mickey taker]

Yeah but opening a window dosent cause load on the engine and lower fuel economy like switching on the sitcom do's

[mat_fenwick]

The other point (and maybe I am biased as I've done the install too) is that demisting the car is a lot quicker with the AC on. In a typical warm wet British summer it can be very useful!

I know people go on about fuel consumption, but I've never noticed a difference in economy - even leaving it on constantly for a tankful versus off all the time any difference is hidden within typical tank to tank variation. Plus a window open spoils the aerodynamics, and can make *some* difference to economy.

If your plan is to make money on the grey one then selling it with working AC will help, but if you want to do it, do it. If I was doing it with limited time I'd be tempted to remove all components but the minimum of wiring - I took out the whole loom from the donor car and integrated it exactly as the factory installation. It would have been a lot quicker, and less destructive to the donor to make up a new loom from scratch.

[Vanny]

I know people go on about fuel consumption.

Yes they do, idiots! The difference on a modern system is fook all, the difference on a system as old as ours is measurable, but about 10% the effect of 'cracking a window' even on R134!


Frankly i wouldn't bother ripping the system out. The only difficult bit to acquire is the recirc units, and these can be readily found in Europe. After that, the wiring loom is simple (though the valver has custom wiring and a custom ECU map to disable the compressor on WOT), frankly a 18f PIC could replace the tiny controller, and make a better job. Though i would personally want to get the OEM AC controls!

For added efficiency i suspect a SCX would be easily fitted!

And remember the BX refrigerant system is HI SIDE charge only, and less and less people understand how to deal with this!

[Tim Leech]

Ive never used aircon much to be honest, for the rare days a year when its THAT hot you use the sunroof or windows!

I wouldnt bother as its too much of a faff!

[Kitch]

Thanks for the advice chaps and chapasses.

The whole point behind switching it was really the fact that it's such a rare option I guess I was being a bit of a tart about it, and wanted BAH to have it all
But I've already got rid of leather because it didn't really work in a valver (not one that's being driven properly ) so I suppose I'm never going to be fully specced up anyway.

The question of whether I need it or not isn't really as relevant. The car won't be a daily driver again....this year was it's last shift as a daily. But I did think air-con would do a good job of drying out any damp from the interior.

As it stands I probably won't bother. However, I might hook the recirc and heater motors up so I can have a recirc function in the red one.

But yes, G-SEG will have to go soon. I wasn't sure what the plan was ever going to be with it....I just knew I needed to buy it because it may either end up scrapped by puggers, or if it was really past the hill then it'd be a good source of spares. But I've decided to make the mechanicals as good as the body now, so I should end up with one of the best valvers around once I've done the hours! Should be easy to sell

[Birotor]

I have a copy of Citroen booklet BRE 0386 MAN 106050 of October 1997 "Air Conditioning - Evolution of Refrigerants - Converting systems in AX, ZX, BX, CX, XM from gas R 12 to R134a". I can copy this 42 page A4 guide should any one need to refer to it,

[sdelasal]

Birotor - i'd like a copy of that please -- i'll pm an email address. My car has R143 in it - different to R134! Apparently it was a drop in replacement! I still need to get a duff compressor changed out so i've not used the a/c all year - not that i've needed to really. Steve

[kiwi]

To be honest I thought that the reason my 19TZS was thirsty on the fuel compared to the 19TRS was due to the Aircon being fitted. Now after owning the 19TZS Auto which also has aircon I think thats a myth. The Auto in theory should be thirsty on the fuel compared to the Manual correct? This does not seem the case! There is hardly any differance between it and the 19TRS manual none aircon.

Is aircon worthwhile was the question? Yes and no! Even if you dont get those scorching hot days it is bloody useful and quick in clearing condensation on the windscreens on wet days, in saying that last summer here hardly used the Aircon on the 19TZS manual two reason lack of hot days and the Diesel more economical. On a long journey aircon has its advantages.

[mike22861]

Yes it is specially in this weather the car will demist in seconds i find that more useful than keeping it cool in the week of summer

[citsncycles]

I think aircon vs opening a window using more fuel depends on the speed you're travelling. Aircon will have much the same effect whatever the speed, while the effect of an opening will increase with speed.

As for comparing the fuel consumption of different cars, there are so many mechanical factors as a result of wear that there are too many variables to put fuel consumption down to 1 thing.