Ignition barrel wiring.

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DavidRutherford
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Ignition barrel wiring.

Post by DavidRutherford » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:08 pm

Changed the ignition barrel on the TZD today, but I'm a little worried that something isn't going to work now.

The ignition barrel that came out had 8 cables on it; 4 red, going to a white connector, and 4 white cables, going to a brown connector.

The ignition barrel that replaced it (an older one from the DTR) only has 4 cables from the barrel, but these split into 6 with 4 into the white connector and just 2 in the brown connector.

The connectors in the TZD have 4 cables per connector, so my immediate assumption was that there were extra circuits in the TZD that aren't in the DTR. Look at the DTR wiring, and not so... there are 4 cables in both connectors in the DTR too.

So, having put the DTR's ignition barrel in the TZD, I've checked as many circuits as I can think of, and everything seems to work....... but I can't help but think I've missed something.

Anyone had experience of this in the past?
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Ian_Fearn
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Post by Ian_Fearn » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:18 pm

I had exactly the same experience when i replaced the barrel on the Hurricane.

I bought a brand new one from GSF and i never found anything that didnt work afterwards!
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ken newbold
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Post by ken newbold » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:49 pm

As far as I know, the only difference between BX ignition barrels are the ABS ones.

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Post by AlanS » Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:01 pm

I swapped one on a Trs years ago which was under warranty just after I bought the car and kept ending up with too many or not enough wires. They were all second hand (supplied by the dealer) but eventually I got the right one.
In light of experience since, I reckon if you need to replace anything associated with the ignition switch, it's worth wiring a seperate switch into the circuit so you don't need to use the key to activate the starter, but instead just turn the ignition on, press the button and go as I reckon that's where most wear/damage to the ignition switches starts. Whilst on the job, hook a relay into the circuit and that's another couple of jobs you'll never have to worry about. :wink:


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Post by jeremy » Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:20 pm

I think the barrel and wiring from a later Citroen can be fitted. My TD BX (with ABS) came with 2 nearly new Citroen keys, excellent locks all round which appeared nearly new and a bag full of the old locks and no keys. What is noticeable is that the keys have a spine running the length of the key but my 16 valve which is the same age (late 89) has flat keys with no spine as does our 94 ZX.

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Post by roscoe » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:27 am

I replaced the ignition switch on my TZD a couple of weeks back with a new one (6 wires) and did it temporarily at first - just unplugged the two connectors to the old barrel, plugged the new one in and the car started up fine. So thinking everything was OK, I proceeded to cut the immobiliser wiring out of the old ignition wiring, replaced the barrel with the new one and plugged it back in - car would not start. Spun over fine, everything worked except no start - could not hear the fuel solenoid clicking. So I suspect the immobiliser has a circuit that also taps into that feed, and without the wiring diagram for it and not being able to trace the fuel solenoid wires, I had to reconnect it back up to the old, 8 wire switch. What I'm thinking of doing now is leaving the old switch connected to the immobiliser with the key turned on in it, but tape it all up under the steering column, put the new ignition barrel in and use it as normal. That setup seemed to work when I tried it out initially, so seems to be the easiest way to do it without major wiring hassles...
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

M

Post by M » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:46 am

jeremy wrote:I. What is noticeable is that the keys have a spine running the length of the key but my 16 valve which is the same age (late 89) has flat keys with no spine as does our 94 ZX.
Sounds like it has a Xantia barrel / key. Vera the TizzyDee had this "modification"

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:45 pm

My 93 TZD has the later type key too.
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Post by AndersDK » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:50 pm

Back to the point :

The confusion about the wiring old/new barrel switches.

The brown connector with white cables connects in the fuse/junction box to the battery permanent live - unfused. All 4 pins here are interconnected on the junction box side - so you may as well connect cabling to the remaining 2 (empty) pins on the new connector - if they are still there on the connector block. This will decrease the power load on ecah connector pin.
I recommand this mod if at all possible - as the amperage load on each connector pin is quite heavy.
But to your feelings something is not right only having 2 white wires : no, it does not matter on the function.

The white connector with red cables however distributes the switched battery power from the ignition switch - to the various function circuits in the junction box. They are responsible for that you get power to the starter motor only when key in extreme starter position - etc. In the junction box these circuits are then further distributed via the fuses & junctions to other connectors.

Note that the wires to/fro (white & red) the ignition switch are not fused and carries a permanent battery live !
Meaning these cables must be well protected against chafing to prevent a fire setting off.
C U / Anders - '90red16riBreak - '91GrisDolment16meteor - Project'88red19trsBreak
dead cars : '89white 16RS - '89antrasitTRDturboEst - '90white19triBreak

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Post by roscoe » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:26 am

I did some more testing on my ignition switch this week and worked out the immobilizer issue with the new ignition wiring. What I did was cut out the immobilizer wires that tapped into the starter circuit from the ignition switch, but left the ones for the fuel relay intact. Replaced the old 8 wire ignition switch with the new 6 wire one, and using the existing immobilizer 'key', the car starts fine. Replaced all the other locks as well, so now I have the new 'spine type' key that fits all the locks on the TZD - the fuel cap was a bit of a bugger to change the lock in but got it sorted in the end. Both door locks were pretty easy once I broke the requisite number of fingers so I could get the connecting rod back into the fiddly little plastic holder.
What I do have a problem with now is the heater fan - doesn't work at all where before it was intermittent. I had cleaned all the connectors, replaced the PCB behind the knobs with a new one (ebay special), and it seemed to work most of the time. Now it doesn't work at all so I suspect it may be the circuit board in the actual blower unit under the vent cowling itself - will do some testing on that today. Can't figure out what role it plays as the car doesn't have A/C, so don't know why this thing is sitting in the airflow and the Haynes BoL doesn't explain it other than showing it in the wiring diagram.
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

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Post by roscoe » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:57 am

Found the problem with the blower motor - a good whack with a hammer got it started :D . So I pulled the blower unit out and took the motor out - the brushes were worn right down and the shaft bushings very tight causing a lot of initial resistance to the motor spinning up. So it's out with the spare one from the 16V to see if it is in better shape and if so, then I'll swap blower motors...otherwise will try and find some brushes from a power tool parts place near me and replace them. The sticky bushings I can sort out with some thin oil - should solve the problem.
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter