TZD Ignition Switch

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roscoe
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TZD Ignition Switch

Post by roscoe » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:32 am

Hi Folks
Have a question about the ignition switches for the BX. I had to change the one in my 16V last year as it went totally and wouldn't engage the solenoid. That one had two plugs with 4 red wires and 4 white wires coming out of it, plus a small green wire and single connector. I ordered a new one with door lock cylinders later from GSF as a spare - since the one in my TZD was acting up occasionally. Now it is just about dead and I thought I'd replace it last weekend. However, when I looked at the GSF one, it has two plugs as well, but only 6 wires from it, and they are all multicolored, not just red and white. Since I have to tap into these leads to reconnect my immobiliser, I figured I'd better hold off changing it until I found out if this was the correct lock. So after searching a bit, this is what I found:
GSF list two switches - N92810 - ignition switch only and N87502 - switch and door lock cylinders (which is what I have). The Valeo part number of this one is 256577, while the one I got for my 16V is 256578. Citroen-pr net lists two as well - depending on orga number. Up to 5956, it is 96 070 197 and if I read my French correctly, says 8 wires. I didn't write the other one down, but it said 6 wires - although I think the part number was the same.
So after all this, my question is - does anyone know if the 6 wire lock I have will work in a TZD (orga 5152) or not, and what the two extra wires are for? On the Valeo box the 16V lock came in, it said 16V w/ABS, but my TZD doesn't have ABS, yet has the 8 wires from the ignition switch. I thought about just unplugging the two plugs to the old one and plugging in the new one, but without knowing what those two extra leads do, figured I'd better find out - maybe the glowplug circuit?
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

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DavidRutherford
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Post by DavidRutherford » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:38 am

Funny you should ask this... I have just done EXACTLY the same, on a 1990 17TZD turbo.

The only difference is that in my case, the 6-wire ignition switch came from a 1989 19DTR rather than new.

The 8-wire from the TZD is now in the DTR (to keep it mobile... the electrics work with a pair of pliers) and the 6-wire from the DTR is now in the TZD.

Nothing has stopped working, despite the fact that BOTH cars have 8 wires up to the connectors for the ignition lead.

I can only assume that the other 2 leads are for ABS or some other such nonsense.
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roscoe
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Post by roscoe » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:59 pm

Thanks Dave
I think I'll unplug the existing switch and plug the new one in without taking all the trim bits off to check it out - if it works, then I'll do it properly. The big problem will be chasing the correct leads for the immobiliser - I'll likely have to work backward from the leads going up to the plug to match them up to the new switch.
Another little task to keep me occupied....

Oh yes, one other thing - the interior fan works through the ignition switch doesn't it - as that has totally stopped working - no matter what position the fan control is in?
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

jeremy
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Post by jeremy » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:11 pm

Heater fan works on the ignition circuit. Loads of information on its problems in these 2 links

http://www.citroenz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1878

http://www.citroenz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1880

Before you get too far involved I'd check out the connector to the blower motor - as certainly on mine it had suffered heavy duty corrosion and was the source of most of my problems.

jeremy

roscoe
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Post by roscoe » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:35 am

Thanks Jon and Jeremy. It is the ignition switch and not the blower connections as I've already checked those and given them a shot of contact cleaner - the solenoid is also failing to kick in when the key is turned - same problem as I had in the 16V. So after 15 years of use, it looks like time for an ignition switch and new door lock cylinders. As long as the immobiliser wiring is straightforward (looks to be but will need to open it all up to verify), should fix both problems.
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

roscoe
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Post by roscoe » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:24 pm

Yesterday I tried the new 6 wire ignition switch in the TZD - it worked OK but I still had the old one connected to the immobiliser. So not thinking ahead like I should have done, proceeded to cut out the immobiliser wiring from the old one so I could get it out (thankfully I labelled the wires!), put the new one in place (without the immobiliser) and it wouldn't start - sounded like the fuel relay wasn't kicking in. So out with the ignition switch - onto the bench to compare wiring with the old one - and there is no way I could figure out to tap the old immobiliser wiring into the new switch. The new one has 6 leads from the bulkhead plugs, but two of these join up near the switch which effectively has only 4 leads coming out of it. One of the leads the immobiliser connected to isn't even present in the new switch, so put the old one back in and reconnected the immobilser - car starts fine now. So it looks like I'll have to source the correct 8 wire switch if I want to keep the immobiliser (and since I don't have a wiring diagram for it, will be pretty hard to bypass it) - but the good news is the heater blower works now! Not sure what it was - took all hte connectors apart and sprayed them, replaced the printed circuit board behind the control knobs and it worked!
Main problem now is all my dash panel lights quit :x - every warning light works, interior lights work, everything else seems to work but absolutely every panel light is out - guess it's back under the dash again - first place is probably the dimmer rheostat under the steering column to see if I have power to it - any other suggestions?
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

Stewart (oily!)
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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:29 pm

The rhestat sounds favourite, done that one myself :oops: pulled the connector half off replacing dash.
Stewart
TZD 19 TD one of the few
Xantia Td estate, going soft

roscoe
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Post by roscoe » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:40 am

It was the rheostat - not disconnected, just buggered. Replaced it with the one from my parts 16V and presto - all dash lights worked. Checked the old one with a meter and no change in resistance at all from one end to the other - even after a good spray with contact cleaner. Can't take it apart easily but it looks like a simple copper wiper from one side of it (-12V) across to the other which is a printed circuit directly on the metal side case - nothing obviously broken but that is what the problem is.
Thanks for the advice, Stewart.
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter