Hub Nut, How to loosen........?

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AlanS
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Post by AlanS » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:44 pm

The pic shown is the right basic idea.
I use the 6 foot pole and "bounce" on it and find it seems to work well and also unless I go on a diet, in theory, same weight on same pole should loosen it when I need to undo it.
Be careful of using the parking pawles to hold it as I understand they can be busted.

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Post by DavidRutherford » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:12 am

The auto-box park position should not be used for this sort of abuse! (and anyway... if both wheels are off the ground, the diff will simply allow the other wheel to turn, as the lock is on the transmission, not the diff)

The best way is with the car on the ground, handbrake on hard. The bonus with the BX of course is that the handbrake works on the axle you're undoing the nut on, so it all goes nice and solid.

If you are having to do this on axle-stands, with the handbrake on hard, you MUST re-fit a couple of wheel bolts, otherwise you'll shear off the brake disc speed screws.
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Post by Way2go » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:01 am

With auto box then is it better to be in neutral? The technical guff about the gearbox said that the torque converter is partially by-passed in 3rd so would this lock-down gear be better - I suspect not.

I can have both front tyres on the ground just to start loosening and I am going to only do the n/s and leave the o/s for later. I want to complete the n/s job before Thursday so I can achieve a retest within time.
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Post by Barnsley BXer » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:18 am

Can you get a cold chisel in there? If you can get one in you may be able to cut the nut. Blade parallel to the stub axle, cut into a flat and aim just to miss the stub axle and its threads. A very sharp cold chisel will cut very effectively!

You will of course need a new nut.
You will also need a new driveshaft if you get it wrong :oops: :cry:
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Post by ellevie » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:05 am

I notice you need it done by Thursday for a retest. Halfords do a universal split boot suitable for the BX for £7.99 with p/n BK5000. This comes with a knife and glue, apparently you have to cut the boot and reglue it. I have never tried this myself so I can't vouch for it, but it seems a lot simpler that having to take the whole car apart just to replace a piece of rubber, especially when you are pressed for time
Hope this helps.
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Post by DavidRutherford » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:35 am

Barnsley BXer wrote:Can you get a cold chisel in there? ..... You will also need a new driveshaft if you get it wrong.
And if you damage the threads, the shaft won't be acceptable for exchange, and you'll be charged a surcharge too....

Plus, I honestly don't think using a cold-chisel will work on a hub nut. It's stiffness and corrosion that has to be overcome, rather than just a high torque that can be "shocked" free. When you find yourself jumping on 4' long powerbars, I don't think any shock load at just 1" from the centre is going to do anything other than make a mess of the nut.

As for the transmission... well if the handbrake is on hard enough, it shouldn't matter what gear is selected, as the shaft won't move. Try applying the handbrake with your foot hard on the footbrake. The hydraulic pressure "assists" the handbrake, and you can put it on significantly harder than with you hand alone. (you will probably have to use the same procedure to release it though!!)
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Post by jeremy » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:47 am

When I wrote that I was not really thinking of using the cold chisel as a punch and removing the nut whole - but cutting away a sufficient portion of it to releive the tension in the nut and thus enable it to be removed easily.

A safer method would be to drill a hole straight into the nut, parallel to the thread, right through the nut and then cut through with the chisel. This could even be done on opposite sides when with luck the nut would then fall away. Most recon shafts come with new nuts anyway. Nuts are usually mild steel and easy to drill - and to round the corners off as well!

New nut is much cheaper than a 3/4 or 1 inch socket set!

Incidentally are driveshafts ever examined on return - or any other componennt for that matter?

jeremy

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Post by RichardW » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:41 pm

I've got a 1/2" breaker bar with a solid replaceable head. There is label on the bar though that says words to the effect of "breakage of the head is not warranted against abuse" - for which I read 6' scaffold bar + 15 stone dead weight 8) It was flexing quite a lot when I undid the nut on my mate's 306 a couple of weeks ago (suspect it had been wound up with a windy gun!) - and which need an 'extension' to shift it!

Note - when trying this, get the bar parallel to the ground, as then all your weight is acting on the nut to turn it - if the bar is up in the air, then some of your weight is acting down the bar, and probably compressing the nut making it harder to turn. It's easier to stand on the bar when it's horizontal too :P

The tightening torque is easily achieved with a 3ft breaker bar without breaking a sweat - and standing on the bar is a good trick - but you probably need to be closer to the nut than you think - eg the 306 is 236 lbf ft, which is me (220lb with steelies on!) stood on only 13" of bar. Again, get the bar parallel to the ground to get the right torque....
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Post by DavidRutherford » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:46 pm

jeremy wrote:Incidentally are driveshafts ever examined on return - or any other componennt for that matter?
Yes. Most motor factors will check them fairly carefully, as if they don't, the manufacturer will, and the factors end up out-of-pocket.

It's amazing what they won't accept for exchange too.... bent/damaged shaft, damaged splines, damaged threads, the list goes on and on.

About the only thing that can be wrong with a driveshaft is the joints being clanky.
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Post by AlanS » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:13 pm

O.K. a suggestion on this before someone breaks an ankle. :roll:
Note - when trying this, get the bar parallel to the ground, as then all your weight is acting on the nut to turn it - if the bar is up in the air, then some of your weight is acting down the bar, and probably compressing the nut making it harder to turn. It's easier to stand on the bar when it's horizontal too
If you're using a 3/4" drive socket, use an extension. Jack and support car and then get an axle stand (the ones with the recessed tops something like these)

Image

sit the end of the extension in the recessed top so that the breaker bar ends up just alongside its outer edge having previously set the axle stand so that it's keeping the extension horizontal. A second set of hands and eyes to be sure it stays level as you mount the bar :shock: and start jumping is a handy precaution.


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Post by sleepy0905 » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:20 pm

Alan S
as you mount the bar
Whatever turns you on. :lol:
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Post by Way2go » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:45 am

ellevie wrote:I notice you need it done by Thursday for a retest. Halfords do a universal split boot suitable for the BX for £7.99 with p/n BK5000. This comes with a knife and glue, apparently you have to cut the boot and reglue it. I have never tried this myself so I can't vouch for it, but it seems a lot simpler that having to take the whole car apart just to replace a piece of rubber, especially when you are pressed for time
Hope this helps.
Ellevie - you are a superstar! I was just about to go and jump on the bar this morning (& buy a new one) when I read your post. What a fantastic bit of lateral thinking. I rang Halfords and they had kits in stock BK7000 is the right one whice is £12.99 (expensive for one boot as both outer & inner were £8.50 for both from CAF) but managed to fit it in the afternoon without dismantling anything! 8)

A big thank you also to all who contributed ideas and help as this is useful education for the future when an MOT retest is not a pressing issue. I find the help on this forum absolutely excellent and it is amazing that a publication like Haynes does not provide sensible advice on "How to" when most of its readers are probably not professional mechanics.

I am taking the BX for its retest in the morning and will let you know how I get on. :roll:

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Post by AlanS » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:13 am

sleepy0905 wrote:Alan S
as you mount the bar
Whatever turns you on. :lol:
I was going to ad " as you mount the bar :shock: and start humping is a handy precaution. " But I thought better of it!! :roll: :oops: :oops:


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Post by sleepy0905 » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:04 am

This could go down a dodgy path. :oops: :shock:
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Hub nuts

Post by Ricky5 » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:07 am

Have just learnt a great way of loosening these from a seventy year
old retired French motor mechanic.

Method; Front offside Remove retaining pin and collar : Turn steering slightly to the right: Place socket breaker bar (Pref 3/4in) With end of bar resting on the ground facing in the forward direction: Start engine: Select 1st gear and inch forward: Hey presto no grunting, sweating, swearing;

Nearside: Same method except position of the bar facing to the rear and engaging reverse gear:

It helps if you can employ some assistance but it can be done solo I have just done it

Rick Bayonne France