Pinion valve refit question

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Oscar
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Pinion valve refit question

Post by Oscar » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:55 am

Hi

I’ve never had PAS since I bought the latest BX. Gradually narrowed it down to the pinion valve seals.

I have the rebuild kit and I’ve downloaded the info on the forum. My plan is to fit a pinion valve from a scrapper, and rebuild the one I take out from my car. That way it’s off the road for a minimum of time.

The question that occurred to me last night while I was playing with my valve is “How do you make sure you insert the valve into the housing in the correct, corresponding position for the rack?” In other words, how do you make sure that, if the wheels are pointing dead ahead, the valve goes in in the “open” position?

The valve rotates fully through 360 degrees, and there doesn’t seem to be any datum point that will tell you when you’ve got it lined up, or that it’s in the right way.

Can anyone help?

Oscar
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AlanS
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Post by AlanS » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:12 am

I'm trying to remember, but from memory, you refit it, start it and it self centres.
As the steering couplings and the wheel are on splines, all you then do is set the splines accordingly.

Here's all the guff from Citroen catalogues as opposed to Haynes BOL.

http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/steering/


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Post by Oscar » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:04 am

That makes more sense - I hadn't approached from the point of view of adjusting it afterwards.

What about the relationship between the rack and pinion itself though? Will that self-centre too?

Thanks for the manual - hugely helpful. I had decided to try and map the inside of the valve tonight based on what I could see through the holes!
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Post by AlanS » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:54 pm

It's hard to explain in a few words but effectively they work on a "rooms and doors principle.
It all makes sense once you start to reassemble.
One trick I found was to press the top bearing off the shaft and ft the pinion (using silicone grease as a lubricant) and fitting the bearing last.
With the bearing in place, there's no vision and even less access to those hard rubber seals when they get refitted, as a reesult, there's a large risk factor fitting them with the bearing insitu (as per the Japanese site). You must also be extremely careful that the rings go back on the grooves they come out of. Again, the Japanese site was incorrect I found, a fact confirmed by someone else (Vanny I think). It sems that they differ between RHD and LHD cars.

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Post by Oscar » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:09 pm

Hi Alan

Thanks for this. I wasn't asking about the refitting of the seals, but about the fitting of the complete valve back into the rack. I don't see how the rack and pinion can match up if the rack is on for instance full LH lock and the pinion valve goes into the housing and engages with the rack in for instance full RH lock position.

Perhaps I'm not asking the question very well, but I hope you can puzzle it out.

O
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A matter of a pinion

Post by ernst stavro blofeld » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:35 pm

Yes, I think I can see what you are getting at. The housing itself screws into the rack, that is it rotates as the helical pinion engages the rack. From there on in, the outer housing can be turned to align the two allen screws that hold it together. If the rack is out of the car, then it all looks a lot easier. The problem is knowing where the flat on the splines for the hardydisk coupler is going to end up.
Find where it is supposed to be. Pinion turns through 2 1/2 turns (Check that!) lock to lock plus 45 degrees overrotation to bed the pinion. so if you know how the lot aligns to the steering wheel, you just rotate it 1 1/4 turns plus 45 degrees from where it should be with the rack at one end. One turn is unnecessary, so you'll need to be about 135 degrees anticlockwise of the desired position as you start to insert the pinion.
The sleeve valve within is self centring, as Alan says but read everything that he and Vanny have ever written on the subject before fitting the seals.

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Post by Oscar » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:50 pm

So in essence, the flat on the coupling is my datum mark for the whole thing. This is really helpful, many thanks.

Oscar
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Post by AlanS » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:16 pm

As I say, it's a while back since we did it and I had an offsider who can twist in tight spots much better than I (low cars and pot guts don't mix) :shock: :oops: but I think the flat is one thing and when it slips in is the other as things must line up as you assemble.
We then set the wheels dead ahead and went from there. AS I say, once into position any slight adjustments can be made using the splines.
It looks a bit complicated when it's on paper, but you'll find as you assemble, it all starts to make sense. Keep the "rooms and doors" at the back of your head as you reassemble and check as you go and you'll see what I mean.


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Post by Vanny » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:45 pm

numerous pointers for you,

1) the japanese site is total bollocks, please ignore it! Have a search on here and you can find the costly results!

2) before starting check your hardy disc (big bit of rubber that links the pinion to the steering column), mine was starting to look a bit rough and after a lot of man handling it's now split!

3)remove the exhaust from the car completely befor starting, you'll save hours of time and pints af blood.

4) once you have replaced the seals and try to put the pinion back in the hole it wont fit!!!! Fortunately i had a spare rack when i came to fit the pinion for the second time and discovered that when putting the pinion back in you need to grab hold of the O/S track rod and pull it towards the back of the car, moving the innards of the rack out of the way of the pinion and allowing it to literally drop in!

5) theres no messing about with readjustment, just drop the little bugger back in and connect up the steering column, it makes no difference how you reconnect the shaft as its much easier to throw a 22mm socket on the steering wheel and turn that!

6) if you can replace the seals for the pipes inside the pinion, as pleiades and they should be able to supply for very little cost, its just worth doing!

7) when you start her back up you will have NO power steering, turn all the way to one side and hold and you will hear a hissing sound as the PAS circuit refills, hold for maybe 10 seconds. Now turn to opposite lock, this should be REALLY easy to do, if its not the seals are in wrong do not allow your hamfisted friends to force the steering wheel :D again hold the lock for 10 ish seconds, took me three locks to have gloriously smooth steering again!

8) if you dont already have some, buy a few ratchet spanners (i suggest bendy heads and sizes 10mm,13mm,16mm), they make this job very easy.

9) and finally, 90% of the operation will be done with you head on the ENGINE side of the subframe, it is possibly beneficial to remove the driveshaft, and the hardest part of the entire operation is...removing the pinion heat shield!


and as an aside, dont forget to tighten the wheel bolts and the brake away joint on the steering column, makes for an interesting drive when you go to fuel up :D

Im half way through writting a looooong write up on the subject with all the step by step pit falls, so if you need any pics before you start let me know, i can tell you step by step how to totally screw it up and can post you an exploded PAS ram to prove if you like :lol:

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Post by Oscar » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:27 pm

Thanks guys for all this help. I intend to give it a go this weekend and will report back.

Good tip on the exhaust Vanny, thanks for that. I've got a spare hardy disk too if I need one.

I'll let you know how I get on.

O
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Post by AlanS » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:00 pm

If the hardydisc is a new one, be aware that it is different to the original.
Original ones were rivetted together and one of the fittings needs the rivet ends to be drilled out IIRC.
Upon reassembly, there are allen cheese heads and nyloc nuts; be sure to assemble in such a way that the ends of the threads don't foul on things when back in place.


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Post by Way2go » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:08 am

On the coupling for mine:

Rubber bit only from GSF = £9.99 (Not looking easy!)

Complete coupling from Citroen Main Dealer = £20.14

(Took rubber bit back to GSF for credit!)
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