The nut was just the start......

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Tim2cv
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The nut was just the start......

Post by Tim2cv » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:21 pm

MORE ISSUES!

Ok so ive been and found the socket but still cant get the drive shaft nut off.... changed the altenator belt, HP pump belt, wipers etc



Anyway, ive removed the hydraulic reservoir and cleaned out the brown LHM and sludge from the tank, refitted and things were going ok until i went to bleed the system. Fitted new rear nipples and they permanently weep, ok, so i tried bleeding the fronts, one side went great the other side sheared off trying to remove the nipple, now im stuck with the car on axel stands, only 3 calipers and 4 pots collecting the drips.

Anyone know how to remove screwed up nipples? And why are the rears weeping?!

Oh, nearly forgot, I can not get the accumulator sphere off either, ive tried a chain wrench and the propper plaides tool and neither fit round between the sphere and the block, if i try to tighten the tool it just slips off the sphere!

HELP ME PLEASE! (MOT this week!)

TIM :cry:
2CV6 1986 Dolly

MEHARI 1976

DYANE 6 1981 - GF'S CAR!

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:42 pm

okay, sounds like your having a few problems!

Firstly that caliper, your going to need to try two things, firstly see if you can get a 'easy out' which is basically a reverse threaded drill bit, this may get the snapped end out. You'll need to get some penetrating oil and heat on it first though. likely hood is this WONT work so dont worry!

The standard fix is to simply drill it out, tap a new hole and put in a bigger bleed nipple, they are available in literally HUNDREDS of sizes so go speak to your car spares place to get some different nipples and then you know what sizes to drill and tap to. I think you need both a course and fine tap to get a good seal!


When you say the rear calipers are weeping, where from? I cant say i've ever had problems with the calipers but then again i've never bothered to bleed a BX and never had any problems ;) they should really be done as i suspect the rears will be full of crap, but the brakes work rather well so im not gonna go fixing it until its broke!


The drive socket, well dont give up too soon! Best thing you can do is deem the hub as a total loss and get to cutting, but i'd give it some serious heat and abuse before going that far! You dont want to go killing a BX16v drive shaft as they are bigger and difficult to get hold of! THe hubs are the same as are the calipers for all bx models (for the front calipers its only the 'hoop' that is different), so if you never get the bolt off its not the end of the world!
Have you tried a cold chisel? reasonably pointy, hit it into the nut face at 90degress to get a dint, then hit it fromright to left at an angle to 'undo' the bolt, you can get some serious force in like this but becareful when you slip cos it hurts a hell of a lot! The second it moves, even only by the smallest amount then you get the breaker bar back on. If the socket is an impact socket (black) then beat it back onto the nut and try undoing, if you have a 'normal' socket then you will likely have to make the sides of the nut flat again with either a grinder or a file!


If you do decide to cut it then cut into the nut parrallel to one of the sides about half way accross and half way through. Then put the chisel into the gap you've cut in. At this point there should be no damage to anything but the nut. Beat the crap out of the nut using the cold chisel and the big hammer and get the nut to partly snap off! Then try undioing the nut by hitting from right to left with the cold chisel again. Normally this gets enough heat into the rust and enough force to break the corrosion and get the thing moving!



As for the accumulator what are you trying to do? normally the accumulator is NOT on hard. You are trying to unscrew just the green ball from the pressure regulator and not tryiing to 'undo' the top of the PR right? If it really wont budge then charge the system upto pressure and try to get it to crack, you only want it to move a fraction of a turn. If you get desperate resort to the cold chisel and beat it in an anti clockwise motion. Once it's cracked then depressurise the system and ge tthe chain on it!

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Post by AlanS » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:06 pm

When you start working around rust, you forget the words "it has to be done today."
You think heat, WD, penetrating oil, oil and impact tools.
Bleed nipples should always be heated, penetrating fluid dripped around the top of the thread and a couple of downward taps on the head of the nipple. Next day or more, octagonal socket and gentle too and fro action to try and release; apply more heat and penetrene if unsuccessful. In the case as has happened, follow Vanny's advice on refrilling and tapping.
If I read rightly, it's the rear bleed nipples that are weeping. Are they the originals? If not, are they the correct length? If they are, it's your old enemy rust that has got them again. Depressurise system and run a tap down the thread and replace the nipples with new ones; there's shit on the thread somewhere.
Hub nut, easy fixed. I've never had one beat me using what I described previously on the 16V board. Most importnt is the breaker bar. It HAS to be at least 3/4" or you're wasting your time, as a stubborn one will cause the bar to spring, acting like a big shock absorber if you use a 1/2" type. If you're using a 1/2" try belting it with a lump hammer to give the same effect as an impact gun. If the hammer bounces when you hit the breaker bar you know that's where the trouble lies. A 3/4" or 1" will jar when hit.
Accumulator; I personally wouldn't worry about this at this stage if it's not required for your MOT (I don't know what they require in that department) as that could be as time consuming as anything else.
Personally, I'd take the entire P/R from the car, hold it in a vice and use some heavy artillary on the accumulator to get it off.
In most of the above, I've found over the years that often the longest way around is more often than not the quickest, as there's some jobs that just cannot be rushed.

Alan S
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Tim2cv
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Post by Tim2cv » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:27 pm

The nipples i usesd in the rear calipers were new but not from Citroen, from a european car parts place... They looked pretty much the same but gues they arent. I am having a trip to Citroen after work to get the propper bits. For now i think ill get another caliper as i am a little suspect of them anyway (cracking/clunking when braking in reverse) I will just use the old one as an exchange unit. The acc sphere can stay for now and ill do that another week, as can the cambelt. Ill just concerntrate on getting it mobile again and the brakes working.
Cheers
TIM
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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:31 pm

hmm, dont go get any new rear brakes yet!

for starters they NEVER fail, worst that happens is they wear, in which case speak to JonKW and he can recon them for you for naff all money!

There is something that causes a clonk when going into revers and while i've had the problwm before i've been the pub and cant remember the problem! Either way, dont go buying new rear calipers just yet. I think it's something to do with the piston/brake pads binding and a recon will sort them!

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Tim2cv
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Post by Tim2cv » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:58 am

no, im getting more nipples for the rears and a new front caliper where the nipple is well stick, flush sheared with the caliper.
the joys of motoring!
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Post by cauchoiskev » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:42 am

Hello, Tim

I also had big problems with a hub nut, mangled a 1/2" drive and a wheel-nut remover, then opted for the only serious solution (outwith very expensive 3/4" jobs) : weld the socket directly onto a 6 foot steel bar e.g. big water pipe.

Believe me, no nut however tight or rusty will resist that !

P.S. As a "newbie" (hate that word), congratrulations to all for an excellent BX forum.

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Post by Tim2cv » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:00 am

Finished fitting the brakes with propper nipples that dont leak and tried bleeding it but didn’t go according to plan, no lhm from rear calipers and they dont work... is this as they need weight on the car to work? The fronts had a trickle but not the expected high pressure p*ss of lhm from them.
Dropped the car off the stands on the front onto its wheels but the old boy wouldn’t lift himself off the ground? Just went straight to the floor and jammed the jack under it...? Currently its got the rake look as its stuck on two axel stands at the rear.

Still cannot get that nut off! might ask the garage doing the mot to put the rattle gun on it!

Also, when i started the car with the handbrake off and the car in neutral the LHS drive shaft was turning....? any ideas why? bit odd as the right wasnt and it wasnt supposed to be!

So close but yet so far! :?
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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:10 am

Tim2cv wrote: 1) no lhm from rear calipers and they dont work... is this as they need weight on the car to work? The fronts had a trickle but not the expected high pressure p*ss of lhm from them.

2) Dropped the car off the stands on the front onto its wheels but the old boy wouldn’t lift himself off the ground? Just went straight to the floor and jammed the jack under it...? Currently its got the rake look as its stuck on two axel stands at the rear.

3)Still cannot get that nut off! might ask the garage doing the mot to put the rattle gun on it!

4)Also, when i started the car with the handbrake off and the car in neutral the LHS drive shaft was turning....? any ideas why? bit odd as the right wasnt and it wasnt supposed to be!
1) Hmmm, they dont tend to piss out much but it should be pretty constant (more than a trickle!), you do need weight in the boot (couple of tool boxes does it for me! And you still have to put you foot on the brake pedal to open the valve to get the fluid to the brakes. The difference is you dont have to pump it with the engine running, it's still a two man job (but i could be wrong!)


2)Normal, don't worry about it! It needs to build pressure back up and can take a while especially if the brakes have been bled! Incidently im sure you should bleed the brakes with the car on the ground? but who knows? Just leak the car running, perhaps a slightly higher idle speed and do Citaerobics, eventually it will rise!

3) Best bet!

4) for me thats perfectly normal, dont understand why it does it, but accept that it does! If you stop that side from turnign the other will instead, i suspect its clutch related?

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Post by ken newbold » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:43 am

Bleeding the rear brakes can be fun. If t he car is stuck on axle stands you will need to lift the rear hubs high enough so that the HC kicks in to pressurize the suspension system. You may be able to lift it with your knee. :roll: Once she/he starts lifting everything should bleed OK.
As for your wheels turning, this is simply the diff at work driven by the thickness of oil in the gearbox. We think of our cars as being two wheel drive when in reality they are only ever driving on one wheel at once. This allow them to negotiate corners via the diff.
Your front hub nut probs. I would visit an autojumble or similar and buy a cheap 3/4 socket set (theres lots around now) end of problem (at least with the hub nuts) :lol:
They think it's all over, it is now!

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Post by AlanS » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:28 am

I usually bleed the rears by setting the suspension to highest and putting a scissor jack under the rotor or arm and jacking up until it "just" lifts off the axle stand. Then it should absolutely urinate out at a great rate of knots when the pedal is stood on.
I recently sorted a TZi that had been "specialist" serviced as a result the bloody LHM was black, so I gave it a total drain out via the brakes and pulled about 500mls out of each rear brake. It took literally secionds to pull that amount using the scissor jack. The jack I have came from an old Toyota FWIW, and it gets a lot of use around a Citroen.

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:03 pm

There was me thinking that a scissor jack was totally useless except for 'opening' scrap cars! My have to go myself on as its already given me ideas on other uses!

Personally i have ramps so i suspect there a little safer than a scissor jack!

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Post by AlanS » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:36 pm

Vanny wrote:There was me thinking that a scissor jack was totally useless except for 'opening' scrap cars! My have to go myself on as its already given me ideas on other uses!

Personally i have ramps so i suspect there a little safer than a scissor jack!
All Hydraulic Cit owners should have a scissor jack for quite a few jobs. The one I have has a top fitting like this [] (end elevation) and a gap at the top wide enough for a rotor to just sit neatly in. On the early Toyotas, this had a section of the rocker panel which was reinforced that sat in it when the car was to be jacked.
Another use on 16V (can't speak for other models) is if you get one that is totally sat down due to no suspension or no engine to drive the pump, is to get to the rear of the car and from behind you can see two metal brackets that slide along each side of the spare wheel; they are bumper mounts from memory. Slide the jack under and directly below one of them and providing there's no rust on them, it will raise the body enough for a trolley jack to be slid in under the rear but in front of the rear wheels to raise tha car more easily. At the front, it will slip in behind the front wheel to sit under the subframe and allow the body to raise enough for either a trolley jack or the original car jack to be fitted. I also use one for supporting temporaily the control arms in the middle of r & r drive shafts to give finer adjustments or a bit more lifting power on reassembly.
Over here, wreckers almost give them away and the most suitable I've found are the original early Toyota and E series Mazda jacks.

Alan S
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Post by Tim2cv » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:03 pm

youl all be glad to know im back on the road! (temporarily)
Given up on the drive shaft nut, acc sphere and cambelt for now in favor of using the car again!

Started him after work and he rose to full height in no time at all! odd, then it bled no problem at all... think he just wanted to let me know whos boss! Been out in the car tonight and its fine, brakes bedding in ok and all good!

Will keep you posted!
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MEHARI 1976

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