Steering Funnies... getting worse. Oh dear.

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BackinaBX
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Steering Funnies... getting worse. Oh dear.

Post by BackinaBX » Sat May 27, 2006 8:36 pm

Hello forum, perhaps you can throw some light on my steering funnies.

With a cold engine, or at least until the LHM has warmed up, my power steering is always fighting back. In a straight line, it's fine, but turn the wheel just a bit either way, and it's all over the shop! Sometimes you don't know of you've got enough turn on to get round the corner because you start to turn, then it will turn a bit more... all by itself! It's like it's driving itself! Shopping trolley with a wonky wheel is how I'd describe it.

Other funnies.

She pulls to the right, and badly. Let go for a fraction of a second, and you're on the wrong side of the road.

Wobble... not bad at high speed, but between 20 - 50 the wheel wobbles like crazy... this coupled with a hard right pull, and the power steering with attitude when it's cold makes for interesting driving.

Any thoughts? I'm going to change the LHM this weekend for fresh (if it ever stops raining), so that might clean up the cold engine probs... as for the rest, your vast and amazing BX knowledge is much appreciated.

Many thanks,

P
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
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'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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rob-bx16v
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Post by rob-bx16v » Sat May 27, 2006 8:46 pm

hi there,

your power steering is probably to do with a weak hp pump
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK » Sat May 27, 2006 9:42 pm

IMHO you have a problem with dangling lower control arms - which will MAKE the steering to be all over :?
You might even have a mix of problems.
Possible problems - which MAY all be present :
1) lower control arm rubber bushes (common)
2) lower swivel ball joint (common)
3) flexible coupling steering wheel/axle to steering rack pinion drive - THIS IS DANGEROUS if it suddenly fails totally while driving :evil:
4) steering tie rod balljoints worn

I'd say you should ground your BX until at least you have assured its not problem 3 above. Imagine no steering when accelerating out of a curve ... :roll:
- its THAT bad mate :shock:

It has nothing to do with the power steering hydraulics - but we could revert to that once you have been all over the above issues ...
Good thing is all 4 issues above are easy and cheap to DIY :D
C U / Anders - '90red16riBreak - '91GrisDolment16meteor - Project'88red19trsBreak
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BackinaBX
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Post by BackinaBX » Sat May 27, 2006 10:07 pm

Thanks for those tips... and yeah, item 4 does sound a bit, erm, lethal. I'll have a look under there tomorrow, see what I can see... I'll get back to you with my findings, but all suggestions are still gratefully received.

Many thanks forum,

P
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
_________________________________________
'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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Update - update - update

Post by BackinaBX » Tue May 30, 2006 6:07 pm

Well... thankfully there wasn't much wrong, it seems. I tracked the heavy pulling to the right and the wobble down to some seriously defective tyres! The ones on the front had little in the way of inside tread, and they were becoming asymmetrical... on has a very noticeable bump in it. Swap over front to back, hey presto... good as newish). I'm going to get the tracking and geometry set by my local Citroen specialist. At the same time he's going to fix the rear arm bearings which are groaning away.

Early morning workout with the steering is down to the hp pump, as someone here suggested it might be. The pump just isn't providing enough pressure for struts, steering and breaks at the same time... for the moment I'm living with letting the engine idle for five mins before setting off, as this seems to be enough time for it to build the pressure up, but a new pump is called for.

I've been quoted £135 + VAT for a new one, and about £25 labour - does this seem reasonable?

Many thanks forum... glad to see it's back after that hiccup over the long weekend.
P
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
_________________________________________
'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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ken newbold
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Post by ken newbold » Tue May 30, 2006 7:10 pm

Reasonable, depends what model it's for?
They think it's all over, it is now!

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BackinaBX
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Post by BackinaBX » Tue May 30, 2006 7:17 pm

1991 BX 19 TZD - otherwise spotless one owner from new with a mere 150k
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
_________________________________________
'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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ken newbold
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Post by ken newbold » Tue May 30, 2006 7:33 pm

You should be able to pick one up for about £100 new and fit it yourself in an hour.

Or try a secondhand one from a breaker, £10-£15, any diesel BX :D
They think it's all over, it is now!

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Post by mrmrwray » Tue May 30, 2006 7:38 pm

The defective tyres thing hmm came across that one myself on an uno i had - dont worry the local scallies burnt it out completely and hence why i am a bx man!!
The tyres on the uno though i found out went like that due to the inner wire framework of the tyre failing. It could lead to a very sudden blow out. WHen you said you swopped the tyres round you did mean new for old and not front to back didn't you?
In Billy's old diesel and still going strong!

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BackinaBX
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Post by BackinaBX » Tue May 30, 2006 9:03 pm

Yeah... I put it up on a mates lift (he's flash and has such things lying about his garage, well he does own a DS... he's flash) and spun the wheels round. You can see on every pass there's a bump in the tyre, and this can be seen in both plan and profile. I've seen it before - tread separation, it's where the steel bands just start to get a bit easy... they tyres aren't holding together any more.

I've put the wrong'uns on the back until tomorrow so the car goes in a straight line and doesn't pull, and then I'm getting some fresh rubber. Possibly Toyo's? They were great on my old Saab, don't know on a BX, could be a bit soft. Don't want to spend a fortune, and Toyo's were £23 a time on 16 inch rims, so could be cheaper for the BX.
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
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'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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Post by Way2go » Wed May 31, 2006 12:40 am

I had that bump on the tyre thing in an Audi before. Was on the rear and took a bit to work out what was going on. Was going home on the motorway when I realised the tyre was not symetrical - it didnt make it back, the tyre exploded on the journey. :shock:
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BackinaBX
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Post by BackinaBX » Wed May 31, 2006 12:50 am

It can happen two ways... mainly it happens over time and they just wear out before the tread is thin enough to warrant replacement. It can also happen if you've got old tyres (mine are date stamped 2001) and have performed an emergency stop... It pushes the tyres of true. Same thing can happen on bikes, and when you've got an asymmetrical tyre on a bike, oh god do you know about it!
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
_________________________________________
'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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Post by adamskibx » Wed May 31, 2006 1:00 am

A bit off topic, well totally (sorrry), but I didnt know you were a BXclub member Matt; are you still driving my old St Tropez, or have you moved on to another BX? Id love to know if its dead or alive either way.

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Post by BackinaBX » Wed May 31, 2006 9:21 am

Erm... sorry, I think you've got the wrong chap there... I've never owned a St Tropez (although I did look to buy one years ago). I used to own a TGD. And my name isn't Matt...

I hope you find your old car though... if it was a diesel, there's a very good chance it's still clattering away somewhere!
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
_________________________________________
'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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Post by adamskibx » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:57 pm

Erm, sorry to cause all that confusion. It was wrong of me to go off topic in the first place. I was quite tired at the time and was refering to Matt who goes by the name of "mrmrwray" on this forum. I was just pleased to see that a previously "non-BXer" had become a BX'er, to the extent that he would start posting on a BX forum, and I was/am very eager to here about the state of my first ever BX (for better or worse). Backina BX; I hope yopu get your BX steering problems sorted soon. My current BX has developed an issue with regard to steering also. Its only when stationery and when you steer to the left slightly. The steering wheel resists in the way that it should but as you let go and the flex in the tyres brings the wheel back again slightly, there is a feelable clonk, like something is loose or flexing. Im going to check out the so called "hardy joint" first, for peace of mind.

Regards, Adam