HP Pump...

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BackinaBX
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HP Pump...

Post by BackinaBX » Tue May 30, 2006 7:26 pm

Hello again forum,

Moving on from the steering funnies, it transpires that I need a new HP pump. Now, I can get a recon one for about £140... but I know of a chap that will sell me a nearly-new Xantia pump - nearly new because it was fitted about 15,000 miles ago, but it's just been written off in an accident.
He wants £50 for it.

Question is, can I fit a Xantia HP pump to my BX? I understand the belt is not the same, so I'd have to change to camshaft sprocket too?

Also, it is wise to fit a new accumulator at the same time as replacing the pump, i.e. new pump with lots of pressure should be mated with a acc. sphere that can take it?

Many thanks,
P
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
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'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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ken newbold
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Post by ken newbold » Tue May 30, 2006 7:31 pm

In my experiance with Xantia pumps, most don't even fit other Xantias :twisted: unlikely they're going to fit a BX.
Which model have you got. :?:
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Post by BackinaBX » Tue May 30, 2006 7:33 pm

'91 BX 19 TZD - badly in need of a pump. Squeek hiss... takes quite a long time to get up in the morning. Bit like me really.
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
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'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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Post by jeremy » Tue May 30, 2006 8:06 pm

Most Xantia pumps are twin outlet - majority for the steering, 2 cylinders for the suspension/brakes. This works on Xantias fitted with anti-sink.

Your BX uses a single outlet pump, had had the lovely and often unfairly blamed flow divider to provide a supply for the PAS.

You can repipe it and modify it but there are really more interesting things to do with your life, and the car won't do anything better than with the original layout when you have done the work.

Earlier Xantias (to 1994?) have a single outlet pump and a flow divider, but the pump mounts on the front of the engine not over the gearbox.

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Post by citroen7 » Wed May 31, 2006 10:28 am

before you change the pump here are a couple of things to check
belt tension as tight as you can get it i noticed mine was throwing the belt when the pump went on stroke even though when stopped it felt really taught.
rear height corrector linkage jack car up and release pressure from system if possible remove and grease but if it is really bad wd it and try to free of using a large wrench a good pointer for this is if the height adjustment lever has become stiff .
the final thing is clean filters in lhm resovoir and replace lhm at the same time .
I was going down the route of pump change until i did all this ,the difference is amazing it also stopped the front struts creaking on morning start up.
This is bx no 7 for me and i have never had to change the pump but i am sure somone will tell me different !
hope this helps.

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Wed May 31, 2006 6:09 pm

I have recently spent £lots on a recon pump for my TZD, having tried a few other apparently known good ones, bugger all difference, unfortunately sleepy had my spare one but worn out pumps are pretty rare things on the BX, I suggest you exhaust other avenues before that unless one of the kind forum guys has a good one ?
Stewart
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Xantia Td estate, going soft

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BackinaBX
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Post by BackinaBX » Wed May 31, 2006 6:22 pm

Hmmm... I was thinking about this, and also thinking about getting a second opinion on my pump. Having changed the LHM and cleaned the filters, I don't have to fight the steering in the mornings any more, and there's no great change in the speed that it goes up and down.

The only thing is; the place I took it seemed very quick to diagnose the pump as the source of all my woes... that and the rear arm bearings, but I knew about those anyway.

I'll have a look at that height adjuster thing you mentioned.

Thing that got me was, in the garage, they had the ride height leaver on full, and the spanner money was revving the engine to get it to raise up, but things happened, and then it slowly crept up. I tried the same thing this morning. Lever to min, let it sink. Whack the lever up to normal... bit of a pause, and up it went, creaking good and proper, but up in no time really.

Do you think I was almost had?

And he's quoted me £200 + VAT for the rear arm's... do you think I should go somewhere else???

Just a little bit more... my acc. sphere clicks about every 5-10 seconds, depending on how hard it's working. Time for a new one? Would the acc. cause a low pressure issue, rather than a iffy pump?
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
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'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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Ian_Fearn
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Post by Ian_Fearn » Wed May 31, 2006 6:31 pm

The last time a garage did my rear arm bearings i got charged 70quid + vat per side. That was about 18months ago.
Over and out from me

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Post by ken newbold » Wed May 31, 2006 7:15 pm

£200 + vat seems expensive when the bearing kit is only about £25 and I can usually do both sides on the drive in about 4 hours.

Not sure about the accumalator situation, but it wouldn't hurt to fit a new one.
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Post by jeremy » Wed May 31, 2006 7:30 pm

The flow for the power steering is controlled by the flow divider which is often wrongly blamed for problems. The circuit is pump, flow divider, regulator, accumulator, safety valve, brakes/suspension, and as the steering is fed by the FDV you will see that the accumulator is the other side of the regulator and out of the steering circuit.

Firstly are you certain that there is no air getting into the pump. Air can only get in on the inlet side and this really means the hose from the reservoir to the pump. Looking in the reservoir will give a clue - especially if the LHM looks like green milk.

The accumulator can simply be tested on the car. Get the car to normal height and let it idle for a couple of minutes, then turn the engine off and sit in the boot. The rear of the car should sink a long way then after 30 seconds or so rise again to its original height. If it does this the accumulator is sound - if not - replace. If the height correctors etc are Ok when you get out the back of the car will rise, and fall again after about 30 seconds.

Another test is to raise the car fully and see if the cycling slows. The suspension spheres function as accumulators when the car is fully raised. Don't leave it there for ever as the forces on the suspension are enormous.

The steering uses a high volume of high pressure LHM - and so is the first to show up with a weak pump.

I assume the steering is heavy on both sides.

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Post by ken newbold » Wed May 31, 2006 7:49 pm

jeremy wrote: The accumulator can simply be tested on the car. Get the car to normal height and let it idle for a couple of minutes, then turn the engine off and sit in the boot. The rear of the car should sink a long way then after 30 seconds or so rise again to its original height. If it does this the accumulator is sound - if not - replace. If the height correctors etc are Ok when you get out the back of the car will rise, and fall again after about 30 seconds.

Really good idea, unless the rear arm bearings stuffed in which case you'd be unlikely to get enough deflection in the height anyway.
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Post by BackinaBX » Wed May 31, 2006 7:57 pm

Yeah, this Bearing Kit is being sold to me at £47.95 + VAT... I think he's making a bit of a mark up over GSF's prices.

I think I should take my business elsewhere.
"I'm not into art, I'm just a gun for hire" - Helmut Newton
_________________________________________
'91 BX 19 TZD - now with added dent!
'91 Saab 900 Turbo - thirsty, expensive & beautiful.

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Post by citroen7 » Wed May 31, 2006 8:51 pm

the rear arm bearings will not stop the car going up and down i drove mine with knackered ones for 2 years it was only when it stripped them down that i saw how bad they were!
if you have a bit of mechanical know how i posted a site last week with good instructions and pictures it really was not that difficult.
going by the number of people that need them doing perhaps i should come over for a week in the summer and go round everyone !!
But then who would be left to carryout the guinness quality control...

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Post by DavidRutherford » Wed May 31, 2006 9:27 pm

citroen7 wrote:the rear arm bearings will not stop the car going up and down.
Not completely, but they can make a massive difference. When Kitch turned up with his 19GT, the ride at the back was stiff. Very stiff actually. After doing the N/S arm the suspension was much softer again, as the arm was actually able to move. About 4 times as much travel when you pushed down on the back of the car after doing just one side's bearings.
this might be a signature

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Post by citroen7 » Wed May 31, 2006 10:21 pm

see your point david just going by my own past troubles its not the actaul hydraulic part of the system that causes the hassle its the mechanical link to the height adjuster that ceases up i had my car up on rear jacks and thumped the link and the front moved up nice and smooth as well