Auto box fluid level

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Philip Chidlow
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Auto box fluid level

Post by Philip Chidlow » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:56 pm

Hi

After having ignored it for ages, because it works (!) I thought I'd check my Auto box transmission fluid level via the dipstick. It was warm, not hot (which the dipstick instruction tells me it should've been when I check level), and it was showing quite a bit lower than the lower notch. I'll check again after a run, but what should I be considering doing? Getting it drained and refilled? In which case (and apologies to Alan S in particular - I should've been paying more attention in class and now can't locate the precise thread :roll: ) what should I advise the gearbox specialists to put in? Not that I don't trust them, but I could sort of slip it into the conversation!

Or leave it well alone. Or top it up myself?
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:06 pm

I checked it when hot and the fluid level on the dipstick's about 1cm below the lower notch. If it was the engine's oil I'd be topping it up now!

Shall I book her in?
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive

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Post by AlanS » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:00 pm

Usual sign of very low fluid is the same sensation as a slipping clutch; plenty of revs with very little forward motion.

To test, bring it up to around normal driving temperature and check in park with engine running and this must be done immediately you pull up, otherwise, it's a case of sitting with engine idling, brakes on (hand and foot) and shifting in and out of gear at least a dozen times.
If you decide to DIY, the drain plugs take a 5mm allen socket and there's one for the main transmission and one for the final drive. The drain plugs are interchangeable so no panic if you mix them up.
Top up will take approx. 2.5 litres as the balance is trapped in the torque converter and the fluid is the equivalent of Dexron 11D. (a.k.a. Dexron 2 D)

This is definitely not Dexron 111 (a.k.a. Dexron 3)

If you can get Castrol Transmax M that is as good as you can get for it as this is the = of Dex11D

Castrol Transmax Z is the equivalent to Dex 111 and like the D3 should not be used in these boxes.

Fluid changes are quite simple in these as refilling is done via the dipstick hole under the bonnet and as most 1 litre ATF bottles come with a pourer that fits down the filler hole, it can be done almost without getting your hands dirty.

Hope that helps.


Alan S


P.S. Now go stand in the corner!!
:oops: :oops:
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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:51 pm

Thank you, Sir! :D
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive

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Post by sleepy0905 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:49 pm

And thanks from me i have been watching this thread as i am thinking of doing an oil change on my Auto box on my TZS
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Post by Way2go » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:11 am

For what it's worth, I was told by by a knowledgeable one that it's worthwhile to add a quarter litre of fresh 2D and run it for a day before draining and dumping the the old as the new fluid has a cleaning action on the metal surfaces. :D
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AlanS
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Post by AlanS » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:34 am

I've found that by buying the ATF in a 5 litre bottle, you can drop the oil, fill up, drive for a couple of weeks and then dump it again and use the balance of the 5 litres plus stick a bottle of G60 Nulon Auto transmission additive. Betcha never felt a smoother changing box. Last one I did, the woman firstly thought it wasn't changing gears, then kept mistaking the air/con cutting in and out as gear changes; only way she could be certain what it was, was for her to watch the tacho...............absolute magic it was.
Just a thought if you want to spend a couple of quid for a really big result.
I've been told you can get it over there now.
FWIW,

ATF D2 = A$25 for 5 litres

G60 = A$12 for one treatment (used in second change only)



http://www.nulon.com.au/products.php?productId=g60#



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Post by Ian_Fearn » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:31 pm

I've never seen Nulon for sale over here. Can anybody recommend an alternative?
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Post by AlanS » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:02 pm

Ian,

Make contact with Nulon via their website "Contact" and I think they will respond with where to get it over there.
I have heard it said that it is available there and I think it was Gary Cole who may have been contacted or someone on the 16V forum actually by Nulon not all that long back when it was discussed as regards their manual transmission additive as a means of getting rid of notchy gear changes.
I use it in all my cars and it is extremely impressive providing it's used with the correct gear oil; (it definitely compliments the right stuff) and whilst I'm not an additive fan normally, based on some bitter experiences in the past, I wouldn't own a BX without this stuff in the transmission, there's that big a difference. Not imagination either; anyone who drives any of my cars comment on the gear change, a mate recently slipped a dose into his DS without telling his wife and when she first drove it promptly asked him what he'd done to the clutch or gearbox and another DS that just competed in a 12,000 klms reliability trial re-run over here, took my advice and treated his gearbox instead of rebuilding it and commented that it felt like new and as a bonus, he finished 12th overall, so plenty of evidence to prove its worth.
Could be other similar products, but as I say, I know this stuff works, but can't swear for the others.


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Post by Way2go » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:17 am

Is this product really wise to add to an already smooth auto box? There are some questions regarding PTFE based additives and some conclusions that say it can be detrimental. I supply an extract from the following link:

http://skepdic.com/slick50.html

[/quote]PTFE is a solid which is added to engine oil and coats the moving parts of the engine.

However, such solids seem even more inclined to coat non-moving parts, like oil passages and filters. After all, if it can build up under the pressures and friction exerted on a cylinder wall, then it stands to reason it should build up even better in places with low pressures and virtually no friction.

This conclusion seems to be borne out by tests on oil additives containing PTFE conducted by the NASA Lewis Research Center, which said in their report, "In the types of bearing surface contact we have looked at, we have seen no benefit. In some cases we have seen detrimental effect. The solids in the oil tend to accumulate at inlets and act as a dam, which simply blocks the oil from entering. Instead of helping, it is actually depriving parts of lubricant" (Rau).

[/quote]

Now if it can build up in the small passageways of the engine and block them surely the much smaller passageways of an automatic box can be terminally affected? I also note that the Nulon product contains a seal swell additive - again is this wise on a box that doesn't leak?

Sorry Alan to question your belief in this product but I do wonder if can be likened to the injector cleaner additive that the Citroen dealer heralded that he added to my car during a service that after an initial boost later totally gummed up the injectors. :?
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AlanS
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Post by AlanS » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:40 am

I have never and will never suggest an oil additive for an engine; 2 completely different kettles of fish, but even the most sceptical will agree that the points they raise in engine additives and the things they claim cause them to go wrong are the reasons they work in transmissions.
I think any manufacturer who will print on the bottle words to the effect that "this product will not do any harm to your transmission" would be very brave in todays litigous society and that's something you'll never find on a bottle of engine additive given the number of claims made against them even without those words appearing.
You have to remember that ATF is almost totally made up of additives, so much so in fact that according to a mate of mine involved in oil blending, some are even based on ethylene glycol (known to us as an anti freeze) which sounds unbelieveable I know but he swears that it's true and involved in them are "seal swellers" as well as suspension agents, dispersants, detergents, friction enhancers and a variety of other things, so I can't see another one making a big difference.
I think it's too easy to think along the lines as things were as opposed to the way they are when it comes to some of these modern products.
I recently had someone question the use of a cooling system cleaner/inhibitor on the grounds that it would choke the heater matrix but couldn't get his head around he fact that it is a liquid that doesn't begin to seal things until it's exposed to the atmosphere. Same applies here; this is a far cry from the days when they dropped liquid graphite into engines and gearboxes and if you think the gearbox is smooth now, wait until you drive one with this stuff in it. As I say, you won't believe it until you do.


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.