Engine problems - gonna jump on the swearing band wagon!

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Vanny
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Engine problems - gonna jump on the swearing band wagon!

Post by Vanny » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:47 pm

Hmm, i did like the rest of you muppets and got 'volunteered' to help my mate do a belt change on a 1.8td peugeot 405. Basically i've done most of the work, the only thing i left him to do was clean the water pump gasket and fit a new pump. Got it together and it weed all over. (this is the guy that helped me 'time' my XUD and its been pretty much off the road ever since!)

So stripped the bugger down cleaned the gasket surface fitted a paper gasket instead of the 'blue tube one' we used the first time, and it still leaks (although VERY little now!). But we found another problem. Turned the engine over by hand to make sure the belt was happy and tensioned and finding its 'wobbling' quite a lot, moving as much as 5mm off the cam/pump/water and crank pulleys! I know this usually happens for the first repetition or so and then its pretty much in a fixed position which happened the first time we had it together, but now its going all over the show!

Any suggestions as to why? dodgy pump? dodgy belt?


also the first time we had the accesorie belt on it was bouncing up and down, kind of like there was slack but more vicious, but it was 'snug' and taught. the auto adjusting idler was snapping about all over the show! cant say i was impressed! Any suggestions on this!


the car belongs to his older sister who has recently become a single mother of two after 12years of marriage the husband scarpered. Unsurprisingly she doesnt have two beans to rub together probably why mike took up the job, so i feel a little biased to helping!


Also i hate his workshop! great for building kit cars (which he's doing) but not one french friendly tool to be found! Frustrating!


any help appreciated

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cavmad
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Post by cavmad » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:47 pm

Have you tried the old cornflakes packet trick for the water pump gasket (i.e make a gasket out of one) ? Used to work a treat on old motorbikes if that helps!

AlanS
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Post by AlanS » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:49 pm

When I did I think it was my Xantias cambelt, I had a similar experience which I wrote up at the time (possibly on the CitroenZ tips and tricks that has since self destructed) but mine had a combination of problems, all obvious once you knew about them and may or may not apply to this one.
When I refitted the tensioner, I found the retaining bolt which has a snug fitting central section that fits through the main body of the tensioner so that the head of the retainer holds the inner section of the tensioner itself, can if circumstances are right, grab the inside of the side that sits against the block and as a result will then hold the actual tensioner by the inner side rather than the outer one. In the case of the Xantia, it also had a small section of the original moulding that sat a few thou proud of the block casing and as a result, the tensioner sat about 10 - 20 thou cockeyed, or about the thickness of a thumbnail. When I spun it over prior to starting the belt tried to spit itself off the end and I presumed I had fitted it wrong, so I repositioned it and gave the motor a fire up and turn off only to find the same result. By removing the tensioner and refitting correctly, the problem was solved.
For an example of the strange goings on with belts; I've seen the drive belt on a clothes dryer, fitted slightly out of whack so it had a slight "bend" in the direction it passed over the main bowl. When the machine was stripped down a few years later, the belt was still following that track. I don't know if that's possible (possibly not) but still worthy of inspection.

Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.

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Oscar
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Post by Oscar » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:17 pm

This may be obvious, and I would hesitate to offer advice to as skilled an engineer as Vanny, but are you convinced of the integrity of the various bearings? Last time I saw this was on the Lada when the fanbelt snapped periodically, even though a visual inspection didn't show anything. In fact the water-pump bearings were knackered and it was all running eccentrically.

O

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:09 pm

well the water pump is new, but the trouble thats been had sealing it has made me start to wonder!

BUT there does seem to be play in the tensioner! Only about +/- 1.5mm but i figure thats a hell of a lot, the car is also on 202k miles! so probably needs doing!

end result is its not my car, nor my job, it needs doing fast so it's just been taken to the local specialist who would have done the timing belt complete for around £100 anyways! lost two days of other work though so have to make up for lost time, gonna be a long night!