Low down groan - bearing perhaps?

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BackinaBX
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Low down groan - bearing perhaps?

Post by BackinaBX » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:16 pm

Hello chaps,

I thought my wheel bearing was on the way out, because of the low groan that is all to familiar to me as the sound of a bearing wearing out... however, on closer inspection, it's relatively new and is free as anything... so it's not that.

However, I've noticed that this sound actually cuts out when I change gear, and comes back in again when I let the clutch out... so I'm thinking it's something in the engine (oh dear) drive shafts (erm... oh dear) or something else that gets disconnected from the wheels when out of drive.

It sounds just like a low grumble / whine of a bearing low on grease. Any thoughts? Oh, and it gets louder with engine speed... but I guess you might have thought that would happen anyway.

Collective mind of BXClub... thinks!

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Phil
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Post by timbo » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:34 pm

maybe thrust bearing??

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Post by Cornishbx16v » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:37 pm

the wifes has just done the same in her car! although it being italian it went from a grumble to a groan to a whine to a squeel in a day loL!
would be worth checking if its the thrust bearing!! failign that is the long driveshaft not through a breaing on the back of the lump?????
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Post by BackinaBX » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:50 pm

If it's in Italian car I wouldn't put it past it to blow the head gasket, throw a con-rod and trash the gearbox for good measure.

As you might have guessed, I owned a little Italian number for a very exciting yet brief time before it did what all good Alfa's do: die in a spectacular fashion, with flying bits of engine, oil and lord knows what else being flung everywhere... what idiot said those boxer engines 'just love to rev'? No they don't. Not one bit!

I shall have a look at this thrust bearing... easy to fix? or a pain the the posterior?
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Post by Cornishbx16v » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:15 pm

box off job for the thrust bearing! almost worthy of changing the clutch if the box is coming off (unless its been done recently) as its not the easiest job!!!

got the wifes back this evening! the thrust bearing had actually elongated and seized solid to its carrier! mech said you wouldnt have got a lot further thats for sure!
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Post by sleepy0905 » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:43 pm

That certainy is the sound of a thrust bearing Had to do it on my old diesel but just left it a bit longer till it finally failed :oops: Anyway it destroyed the clutch totally so it was a full three part clutch but we had fun as everyone had the wrong thrust bearing in the box so after a lot of messing around and 4 clutches later we finally got the correct one.
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Post by BackinaBX » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:57 pm

Box off to change the clutch? I've been spoiled by Saab ownership.

Insert big spacer tool... remove old clutch, slip in new one, take out spacer tool. Job done.

Mind you... my mate with a fairly new Ford Something was told that his clutch was an engine out job... he wasn't happy. Engine out? Surely someone has come up with something better than that?
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Post by Cornishbx16v » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:44 am

by your self a fiat 20v turbo coupe and its lump out for the cambelt!!!
the wife's fiat was box out too! fortunately as i said i have a great mechaninc! (he was working at the citroen dealers as mechanic when my car came through for its pdi!!!)

its not the easiest of jobs but one worth getting right the first time!
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Post by RichardW » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:35 pm

I think that is unlikely to be the the thrust / release bearing in the clutch. This is only loaded (and therefore noisy) when the clutch is depressed - however, this being a Citroen, all bets are off! Since the noise cuts out when you change gear you can rule out the hubs / driveshafts / output side of the gearbox. Does the noise come back if you rev then engine whilst in netural (with / without the clutch pressed)? I had an alternator with a knackered bearing that sounded like a wheel bearing to start with. My money is veering towards the input shaft / lay shaft bearing in the gear box though. Have you checked there's still oil in the box?
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Post by mnde » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:43 pm

GS/GSA is also an engine-out jobbie to change the clutch...

Imagine my horror when mechanic told me the clutch kit I gave him must've been the wrong type, as when all was installed, the car refused to go into gear.

Engine out again... :x

I've also had an alternator bearing go: my GSA started emitting strange noises that sounded like a motorbike engine and I didn't have a clue what it was... I then found the source when I put my ear next to the alternator while revving the engine (by pulling on the throttle cable).

My BX grumbles at 50mph in 5th gear... I'm thinking it might be caused by an exhaust vibration.

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Post by adamskibx » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:35 pm

My last two BX's have made this sound, and it never seems to get any worse when it gets to a point, but I would like to sort it out. Having changed the engine and seeing exactly what goes where and does what, my first suspicion is the intermediate bearing on the engine,second, worn gearbox, 3rd, something else lol????????!!!. Seriously though, what sound does yours make exactly? Ill try and describe mine the best I can:

Its most noticable in the low gears, and increases in volume and frequency in time with road speed, although I have a suspicion its actually engine speed (this is becasue when you reach say 3500 RPM in second feathering the throttle, you can dip the clutch and chjange the engine revs and the frequency of the "wooshing scrape" increases). However, it doesnt make this sound when you rev the engine with the car stopped, although the actual sound the engine makes is very very similar but is more of a constant grumble/woosh than a woosh woosh woosh.

I only think its more noticable in the low gears because the engine/wind sound etc is far less so its more noticable. One other point I should make is that it might have something to do with the engine moving on the rubber mounts in that the sound is most severe when you are feathering the throttle at say 40MPH in 2nd or somthing, and the sound gets a lot louder for a second when you suddenly ease off etc. Also, its the kind of sound that a lot of people wont notice when travelling in the car. I can say to friends and family who are passengers "i must sort that grumble out", and they literally cant hear it, but to me, its the most anoying thing about driving the car so I just stick the radio on and use high gears.

As it stands though, my next plan is to change the intermediate bearing AND the gearbox otherwise ill have to take the car to bits twice knowing my luck.

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Post by BackinaBX » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:40 pm

Ah, well, news update. I've been doing a fair bit of driving about today, and listening out for this noise. I don't think it's coming from the near-side / gearbox side... it's almost as if it's coming directly in front of the steering wheel... which places it pretty much in the line of the cam belt, alternator etc.

I'm hoping it's be the alternator... it might need replacing anyway, as I'm experiencing some interesting power loss now and then. Like the other day I came to start the engine... nothing, dead as. A quick jump start, and it's been fine ever since, although it can sometimes take a couple of go's first thing in the morning to get her going.

Mind you, saying that, as part of the assorted bits I got from the guy's garage, there was a brand new timing belt tensioner (well I guess that's what it is... big and heavy brass colour thing on a bracket with a wheel and adjuster? Anyone know what a cam belt tensioner bearing going out sounds like?

As for going over 3500rpm... never done it. Not since the Alfa incident...
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Post by Cornishbx16v » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:52 pm

BackinaBX wrote: As for going over 3500rpm... never done it. Not since the Alfa incident...
Blimey! i regularly bounce mine off the limiter at over twice that rpm!
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Post by BackinaBX » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:34 pm

Yeah... well you've got an engine that will take it... us oil sipping diesel owners have a red line at 4400!

As for the clutch... well, the last guy was fastidious, and fixed anything that needed fixing. A new clutch went in four years ago and it's only done 10-15k since then, so... here's hoping it's the alternator.
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Post by adamskibx » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:48 pm

Any luck with fixing your noise yet Backina? Ive done some investigative work on mine and ruled out a few things. Basically, I put the car on MAX height, put an axle stand under the sill near the front right wheel, and then lowered the car so that the wheel is off the ground. So long as youve got the rear wheels chocked and you are very careful, you can start the car, engage first gear very gradually and spin the right wheel . I did this, and then did the same to the left to see if it was the intermediate bearing. Oddly, the sound was less loud on the left wheel (i think), but it was still there and still the same. I also discovered that you cannot hear this sound when outside of the car. The interior seems to amplify it and cut out the rest of the engine sounds. Its not the cambelt tensioner in my case as the sound is not there when in neutral, but I have to say that it does sound like the sound is coming from directly in front of the driver.

So, ive ruled out the tensioner, and the intermediate bearing, so it must be the gearbox. Im going to install my spare one, but could anyone tell me whether my linkages will hook up OK? My reverse gear is currently by first with the pull up collar, but the other gearbox is a later one with reverse where 6th would be on a modern car.

Cheers, Adam