Camshaft Oil Seal

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finishthat
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Camshaft Oil Seal

Post by finishthat » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:16 am

After replacing the camshft oil seal on the hydraulic pump side, it leaked badly, I put another seal in today, and made sure the shaft was as clean as I could get it, its still weeping but much less.

Both new seals were from GSF , but were different make from the original
which was an elring seal, the main seal lip is in a slightly different place from the original, and the original looks a lot beefier .

Should I try a Ciroen seal from a dealer?

jeremy
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Post by jeremy » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:29 am

I think there are a number of points that should be considered.

How much do you know about this engine? - What I have in mind is that if the cambelt snaps, the camshaft usually smashes and takes its bearing caps with it. The caps are line bored with the head and are virtually irreplaceable but people have been known to use second hand caps. If this has been done the camshaft may not be supported correctly and may never seal.

What condition is the engine in? Is it blowing oil out everywhere? If you remove the filler cap when its hot and running do you choke on the fumes? If so you probably have bore/ring damage and it will never seal.

Otherwise try and work out if the oil is coming out round the edge of the seal or along the shaft. If its the edge see if there is a scratch in the mating surface that's allowing the oil out. If its the shaft examine the seal that's just been removed and see if the sealing lip is still very sharp. If its not there may be a rough patch on the camshaft.

Finally - are the seals the right size?, Did you grease the shaft and seal to provide lubrication on startup?

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sleepy0905
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Post by sleepy0905 » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:56 am

OOOH ring blowby I know about that the old engine in my diesel was so bad I gave up on it after putting new seals all over the place but it never cured it it just blew straight past them, and you could almost get suffocated when you removed the filler with the engine running.
:shock: :roll:
Another thing to check is the camshaft where the seal lip sits has it got a grove this sometimes happens with old engines and there is no way it can ever seal.
2014 Citroen C4 1.6 eHDI Selection Special edition 115Bhp

finishthat
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Post by finishthat » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:03 am

Thanks for the tips, the engine has done 177k miles, but its a one careful owner car so I have a full history, no evidence of a cambelt failure.
The engine does not fume or leak oil , but the weep is from the seal lip,
it can be seen , when the engine revs rise the seal starts to weep.

After the 1st seal I swapped started to weep badly, I made efforts to clean the camshaft where the seal contacts it, the second seal is weeping much less
So I rekon I will try a Citroen seal and make even more effort with cleaning the camshaft.

jeremy
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Post by jeremy » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:02 pm

Make sure you put a bit of a sealer like Hylomar round the outer body of the seal as i doubt if this will seal without it.

It could be worth not fitting the new one fully so that it runs on a different bit of the camshaft. - just don't drive it home the last 1/10th of an inch - but make sure its straight.

adamskibx
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Post by adamskibx » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:14 pm

Yeah ive had this problem- I reverted to using a secondhand but known good seal and that stopped the leak. The replacemnt seal that I paid a fortune for was totally feeble compared with the original ones Citroen used. In fact, the ones Citroen use have a spring in them to keep up the tightness even as the rubber wears out. The replacements didnt have anything like that. Also, make sure you put it in the right way. I had a leak from the camshaft oil seal at the cambelt end-When I investigated, it was in the wrong way round (lips facing outwards). Thats now cured.

Brian
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Post by Brian » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:28 am

Hi,

I have had this problem in the past.

Firsty, examine the journal for any damage that encroaches into the line that the seal runs, if ok then use some very fine wet and dry paper and clean the surface, remove all traces of dust etc.

Then the leak can be eliminated or vastly reduced by using one or a combination of the following:

1. Use a seal with the spring, inspect the seal lip for any uneven wear or damage before use, remove the spring, you will find that it is screwed together at one point, undo, then cut off about 10mm from the non tapered end, screw together, and refit.

2. If the wear line is deep on the journal, then reduce the width of the new seal "I did this on a grinding wheel", so that when fitted the seal lip now runs on an unworn part of the journal.

3. If the journal is damaged, then either another cam or a journal repair:

see link below

Remember to always press the new seal in to the cap, do not fit the seal then bolt the cap on as this method sometimes catches a little bit of the outer seal and pulls it off centre, don't ask me why I know.

Also ensure that the seal lip is positioned in the correct direction 360 degrees.

Cheers

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... php?t=9446

finishthat
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Post by finishthat » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:33 pm

Thanks guys, all good info, the latest seal is oly slightly weeping, so I am mobile, I will get another seal, but this time look for a duplicate of the original seal, an Elringe, the replacement seals all had the spring "helper"
and were of the modern type with the concentric multiple rings on the outside, these work by reducing the pressure of any leak past each ring
until the leak can leak no more. They are also much easier to fit, nearly by hand.
They seal nicely round the outside, but its the cam part thats weeping on
mine, so will inspect further, do not want to take the cam out at this stage,
as thats rather more work!

jeremy
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Post by jeremy » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:10 pm

may be worth your while to take the old seal to a specialist bearing supplier who may be able to match it with something robust - even with the seal lip itself in a slightly different position