Calling all BX Turbo Diesel 1.9ers

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joolie
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Calling all BX Turbo Diesel 1.9ers

Post by joolie » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:18 pm

How easy is it to fit a 1.9 into a 1.8 TZD Estate??

Reason I ask is out here in Sweden, Its going to cost £400 to get all the parts I need shipped over, or min. or maybe £200 if Vanny sends over a head and I buy all the other gaskets parts and doors (!) I need here.

BUT not so far away from here, in a town called Gävle, Lives a little old grey BX '89 19RD, with a refurbed motor. . .

http://www.blocket.se/vi/8239034.htm?ca=11_s

its 3000SEK, thats 2450DKK or £224

Maybe I could get 'em down a bit too. . . :wink:
'91 BX MkII 1769cc Turbo TZD Break

running on RME/SVO

IF it aInt BrOKe dON't trY 'n FIx iT.

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:56 pm

firstly a 1.9RD is NORMALLY ASPIRATED, secondly they are slow! While there quite an easy to car to drive, they rank right up there with riding a snail accross a motorway!

Secondly it should work out to be a pretty easy engine swap, the wiring will be the same, you can possibly use the same gearbox (meaning you can keep your beefier drive shafts), and you may as well keep the cooling system the same (providing plenty of cooling to the under worked under powered normally aspirated diesel!


I reckon the only thing the 1.9 NA diesel is good for is driving around farms! Having driven both i find the 1.7 NA diesel is quicker and more fuel efficient than the 1.9, strange but true!

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cavmad
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Post by cavmad » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:04 am

Vanny, reading the header to Joolie`s post I think that he (she?) means fitting a 1.9TD engine as opposed to a 1.9 n/a.
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Post by jeremy » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:38 am

No real problems - I think the most difficult bit is the hydraulic pump drive - and ZX have a vacuum pump in the same place which may help (early ZX pump is belt driven.) If nothing else works I think you can use your BX camshaft (boring - it may need re-shimming) with the pulley on the end of it.

Of course you can use a Xantia auxilliary drive system (all at the cambelt end) but you will probably have problems getting it all in, and unless you get an early pump you will have to re-pipe half the car as the later ones (late 94) have a 2 outlet pump, no flow divider valve and anti-sink. To do this is just a load of hard work for no result - and you'd only get anti-sink for a load more work.

If you're thinking of using a 1.9RD - use its gearbox as well - 1st and second gears are the same but the rest are a bit lower on the RD. A proper RD estate should have a lower final drive ratio than the saloon. - certainly to 1989.

Curiously the 1.9D will move off better and pull well up slow windy hills than the TD. This is of course due to the fundamental problems with turbocharged engines - when the turbo is not running the thing reverts to being a low compression 1.7 pulling the wrong final drive (ie its in about 2nd gear for a 1.7D) whereas the 1.9 just pulls nicely away. Get them on a motorway hill - and things are reversed!

As you may know I have a 1.9D ZX which weighs about as much as my BX TD Estate.

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joolie
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Post by joolie » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:37 am

. . . err normally WHAT??!!? you'll have to explain that one to me Vanny, but all this sounds a bit more than i can handle right now, I think I should just swap the head.

Im thinking I dont have the space and equipment to do this job too.

ANyways, What I was meaning, Is to put a 1.9 (saloon) engine in my TZD (estate), including gearbox, and connect it to the turbo? does it have the right outlets? are all the other parts compatible??

And what about this HP pump, is it not the same pulley type?
'91 BX MkII 1769cc Turbo TZD Break

running on RME/SVO

IF it aInt BrOKe dON't trY 'n FIx iT.

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cavmad
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Post by cavmad » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:50 am

Joolie, I think this topic has been covered before as I recall asking the same question (pretty much) as yourself. Don`t take this as gospel but I think you cannot mate the 1.7TD turbo to a 1.9 n/a engine and neither can you mate a turbo from say a Xantia to a normally aspirated 1.9 diesel lump. I`m sure somone will be along soon to correct me or otherwise on this though!
Perhaps, if it`s possible, you should consider a complete transplant and obtain a 1.9TD engine and fit it to your BX?
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M

Post by M » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:06 pm

Vanny wrote:firstly a 1.9RD is NORMALLY ASPIRATED, secondly they are slow! While there quite an easy to car to drive, they rank right up there with riding a snail accross a motorway!!
I refute that young Vanny - the 1.9NA may not be quite as rapid as the 1.7TD but believe me it can hold its own to about an indicated 100 (well OK probbaly nearer 88 MPH) and round town its as least as quick as the TD away from the lights. I get 55MPG out of mine too which is a healthy misture of plodding rush hour A roads and nailing the arse off it motorway driving with my arm hanging out the window.... :wink:
jeremy wrote:when the turbo is not running the thing reverts to being a low compression 1.7 pulling the wrong final drive (ie its in about 2nd gear for a 1.7D) whereas the 1.9 just pulls nicely away. Get them on a motorway hill - and things are reversed!
True :( Last years trip to the NEC proved this where a ZX TD wiped the floor with me going up a hill as I was in the N/A ZX... Still

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Post by DavidRutherford » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:06 am

Cavmad, You are quite correct. You cannot simply slap a turbo onto what was originally a non-turbo engine.

The capacity may be the same, but that's about where the similarities end. Every single sub-system of the engine is uprated on the turbo engine. Even the casting is machined differently in places.

I would have said, Joolie, that you need to have a looksee in some breakers yards. The 1769/1905 cc Turbo engine is a fairly common beast, and as long as it comes out of something front-wheel drive then you should be able to unbolt most things on it, and bolt on the parts you need from your old engine. The only sticking point might be a belt-drive-end-type camshaft.
this might be a signature

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cavmad
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Post by cavmad » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:07 am

Marty wrote:
Vanny wrote:
I refute that young Vanny - the 1.9NA may not be quite as rapid as the 1.7TD but believe me it can hold its own to about an indicated 100 (well OK probbaly nearer 88 MPH) and round town its as least as quick as the TD away from the lights. I get 55MPG out of mine too which is a healthy misture of plodding rush hour A roads and nailing the arse off it motorway driving with my arm hanging out the window.... :wink:


Certainly agree about acceleration, or at least initial take off. My old estate rgulary scared far newer and supposedly faster cars. The TZD will, of course, pick up and go faster eventually but the 1.9 is no slug. I`ve found the trick is to welt it from the off-i.e as soon as engine is warm hammer it through the gears and keep on it and it will start to move very nicely. O.K, you can forget about booting it over about 70mph and expecting lighetning reactions as it takes forever to pick up speed but as an all rounder (i.e town and motorway driving) it does take some beating.
Vauxhall apologist.

M

Post by M » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:43 am

[quote=Cavmad"]Location, Location, Location[/quote]

Kirstie Alsop - =P~ =P~ =P~

I agree - The 1.9D N/A is surprising at times. I like mine anyway (which is probably a good thing).