Turbo died? Opinions saught!

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:16 pm

Vanny wrote:
ken newbold wrote: Hows about a normal 17TZD then. ^^bx>
Then i'd become common! And i certainly don't want that.

I still use an Acorn computer for doing work on, i have a super maxi computer base unit and twin monitors, i drink ale and avoid larger where ever i can. Generally i DONT like to be like the other 99% of the population, and a HDi does sound like an interesting project for the future!

THat and adding Hydractive which Pleides recon is very possible!
Dear god mate, you sound just like me but you're even younger than I am I seem to remember!
Your car is too nice to get shot of, if the engine is cream crackered then I'll happily give a hand to throw another one in. I haven't driven your car but I have driven another 1.9TD BX and my 1.7 is much faster and sweeter sounding, that said I've got a high lift cam in it and the garrett is throwing out 1.5 bar (must see about sticking a proper intercooler in it!!!).
Alternativley I do have a D6C 16V engine sat on the floor doing nothing........... You know it makes sense! I'd rather have a drive in my 16V than a night in a woman! Hhmm, maybe I should stay in more!?!
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:18 pm

P.S. HDI's are bl**dy awful. The XUD is a much better lump! ----^
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

tom
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Post by tom » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:30 pm

Right. Time to jump in. Firstly, has anybody checked the engine breather?

Secondly, over enthusiastic use of the wind up screw will eventually decrease the power rather than increase it.

Thirdly, reduced boost on the gauge could be nothing more than a split overfuelling diaphragm or a hole in the pipe. The one prevents the engine from getting enough fuel (you work it out) the other gives the gauge Haynes' disease.

Before going anywhere near it with a spanner Vanny, get a compression check done.

Incidentally, overboosting an engine without compensating for fuelling can make piston crowns so hot that rings can weld to them or the piston can melt down to below the ring land, giving blow by. If the seals have gone, that is why it smokes first thing in the morning but if you ain't getting serious smoke all the time, then your blow by is for another reason. I would take the pipe from the flame trap into a temporary catch tank and if it was shoving out a lot of oil, then I would assume that the air filter was clogged, hence economy suffers.

Don't suppose that the excess pressure is due to your having plumbed the return pipe from the rack back to it? Just my little joke... :wink:

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Post by Vanny » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:42 pm

tom wrote: If the seals have gone, that is why it smokes first thing in the morning but if you ain't getting serious smoke all the time, then your blow by is for another reason.
which seals? presumably not the ones at Puffin Island! Smoked a little on start up this morning, nothing uber and only for a few seconds, had been sat in the 32degree heat till 12 ish before starting!

After getting no where with the turbo adjustments i adjusted the fueling on boost and idle and it no long seems to blow chunks when booting it (though im pretty sure that this was over fueling as it only occured on boost).
tom wrote: I would take the pipe from the flame trap into a temporary catch tank and if it was shoving out a lot of oil, then I would assume that the air filter was clogged, hence economy suffers.
will investigate, perhaps get a new filter and see what happens!
tom wrote:Don't suppose that the excess pressure is due to your having plumbed the return pipe from the rack back to it? Just my little joke... :wink:
Maybe the rack doesn't hiss because of duff seals on the pinion valve then :D


suppose i should check the piping from pump to guage as well as this should be nice and easy to replace!



doc, you've evidently not my missus then!

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Post by tom » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:04 am

Turbo oil seals could be the reason. How do the seals at Puffin Island get their fags?
I would point out that if the catch tank (half litre drinks bottle) collects lots of oil, you have a problem and I reiterate that you must have a compression test done to rule out the serious trouble first!
Good luck; you have my number.

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Post by Vanny » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:13 pm

I dunno about fags, but they get a good clubbing when i go paddling :D


Have new air filter, spent the day at billys getting the 16v running so aint done anything about it, will try harder tomorrow :D


thanks for the pointers Tom!

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Post by Vanny » Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:15 pm

done 150 miles today, 4 kayaks on the roof, four people in the car, all there kit. Now have no oil left! Have watched the oil pressure slowly drop down to 2 on the way home, starts smoking as the turbo comes on at about 2500rpm and really didnt like anything that resembled a hill today and started to get rather hot! However still pulls rather train like, and went to 110 without any complaint on the motorway (bar the smog).


Will compression test once im earning again, but any further thoughts! Havent changed the air filter yet though!

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Post by docchevron » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:52 pm

It's starting to sound a bit terminal mate :(
I've still got a D6C engine if you want it?!?
I assume the valve stem seals are ok? I doubt knackered stem seals would cause you to lose all your oil that quickly but....
Perhaps the boats on the roof didn't help!?!
Best of luck dude
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Chris G
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Post by Vanny » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:13 am

Boats on the roof never do help! Drops fuel consumption down to 30mpg at 80 ish, try to stick around 60mph if i can help it much better returns! Weirdest bit though, 4 boats on the roof reduce fuel consumption MUCH lower than having 16 boats on a trailer! (possibly cos the driver will drive like a car with boats on the roof, and like a caravan driver when towing :D)

Valve stem seals where done with the engine rebuild!


I can NOT put another engine in under any circumstances! Just been laid off from work, insurance has gone on the ole credit card (9month interest free) and even if the engine is mint it would still cost £250 to fit it (usually does) and anywhoo i love DIESEL :D Thank you for the offer again though! All goes to plan, then next year i might have a second BX with a 16v engine, we shall see!


Must do some investigative work tomorrow!

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Post by docchevron » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:22 am

Vanny wrote: Weirdest bit though, 4 boats on the roof reduce fuel consumption MUCH lower than having 16 boats on a trailer! (possibly cos the driver will drive like a car with boats on the roof, and like a caravan driver when towing :D)

Aerodynamics. A game for all the family!! Hope you get another job soon dude.
Yeah I know what you mean, I changed the engine in my diesel just so I could put a big bore exhaust on it! Cost about 600notes at the time and a fair bit more since!

I still think you got a nice looking car even if the engine has been unbelievably troublesome to you.
Have you driven a real 16v yet? I don't think you had when I met you in feb. You'll be bl**dy hooked if you do!

I'm on my ninth bottle of Cornish rebellion so excuse any typo's!
Cheers
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Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

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Post by Vanny » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:52 am

Excellent! New air filter, and 500ml Ckoe Zero oil catcher and in 9 miles of driving its already catching notable oil! Fuck!


Guess that means the obvious! Next question, does one change the rings from the bottom or the top? I'm up for pulling the bottom end to bits :D But why in gods name has it failed with less than 80k on the clock?

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Post by jeremy » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:23 am

Don't see why not. In the 30's the problem was getting the big end of the conrod to come through the bore - and either pistons with rings had to be fitted from the crankcase or the piston was fitted to the connecting rod on the engine. This is the reason why some BMC engines have diagonal split connecting rods.

How easy it is I don't know. Bores have are now large enough for big ends to pass through but crankshafts have got thicker and have more counterweights as well as crankcases now having bearings between each cylinder, which means that there isn't much room in there. It may be necessary to rotate the crankshaft as the job is done.

Ideally you would measure the bores for ovality - and if necessary re-bore and fit new pistons. The pistons should be carefully examined AND CLEANED - and replaced if found to be cracked (yes it does happen) scuffed or if the ring grooves have widened due to running with damaged bores.

While you're down there its probably a good idea to think of changing the shell bearings - both main and big end. I'm not sure how easy the mains are but would expect the technique to be to loosen all the mains then remove one cap at a time and take out one shell, replace it and try and roll the new one round the crank pushing out the old.

How does it happen? - well most major engine damage occurs under stress and a turbo diesel is not a very powerful engine - 88 BHP and driving it heavily loaded at speed will stress it heavily. What this means is that any weakness will be found and - so if the piston - bore seal isn't good then the rings will be subjected to a prolonged blast of very hot gas which will damage them.

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Post by Vanny » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:14 pm

tom wrote: Returning to your engine, I take it that this is the one you rebuilt? If so, was there a wear ridge at the top of the bore? Even .001" could give problems if you have replaced the rings with ordinary ones and not ridge dodgers (cracked rings). Failing that, you appear to hacve suffered a major lubrication failure somewhere. XU motors are oil tight for 300,000 miles and don't burn the stuff but you have low oil pressure and ring blow by. The two together sound like bad news although it may be that you have fitted a ring upside down.

Brought this post from the Aircon thread, trying to keep things tidy!


I think some clarifying needs to be done on the history of this engine;
  • 19rd started to suffer blow by and oil pissed from everywhere, decision was made to scrap the engine!
  • 1.9TD engine removed from Xantia Estate (p-reg) and fitted to BX 19rd
  • bx16v won on Ebay and brought up from Bristol, DC6 engine was battered and mostly in the boot. Remains where removed.
  • My beautiful assistant, while helping me fit the 1.9td from the 19rd to the 16v totally balls up the timing after turning the crank shaft. On starting, head went ping and a valve was bent.
  • Alternator filled with LHM on return from Southampton, killed car. At same time it became very apparent that a valve guide had failed in the engine, presumably caused at the same time as the timing problems.
  • on inspection some time later, it was clear that the engine wasn't healthy and the option was taken to fit a 1.7td.
  • 3 days after fitting 1.7td the head gasket went, and was replaced, three weeks later water started pissing out of the sides of the block.
  • car then sat for 6month while i saved to have the 1.9td head fully stripped and rebuilt (some £350 worth), and the 1.9td went back in at christmass. Wasn't happy from the word go but due to an air leak in a fuel line and incorrectly wired glowplugs.
  • more recently i have tried to wind up the turbo as it was only outputting 0.8bar, all to no avail. Tinkering with fueling has brought the economy back upto the early 40's mixed (from late 20's), and initially reduced smoking! Currently the engine is smoking when ever the turbo thinks about doing something, worst when just coming onto boost and when on full load. Boost never goes over 0.8bar regardless!


    I still have the bottom end of the 1.7td so intend to strip her to bits and see what happens. I clarify that i have NEVER had the bottom end of the 1.9td apart, and i certainly dont want to be taking the top apart again!

    When last rebuilding the 1.9td, there where no signs of rifling in the bores, and the piston heads where pretty clean!

    Once i hook up some pipes so the car can be driven again i will get a compression test done!

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:17 pm

It is possible to swap the turbo without taking the engine out, remove top mount, radiator, support sump on jack, top of motor with engine crane, lean engine forward and reach behind to remove inlet manifold, then loosen exhaust manifold nuts, then wind another nut on and back them together, this means you can remove the manifold studs completely, after removing the oil feed and return lines the turbo can be removed complete with manifold, reassembly is the reversal etc.
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