Early/Late BX19 clutch differences?

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adamskibx
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Early/Late BX19 clutch differences?

Post by adamskibx » Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:55 pm

Ive seen this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/clutch-citroen-bx ... dZViewItem

And if it will fit my car, I would like to bid on it. Thing is, its listed as being compatible with 89-93 cars only. Is there actually any difference? I remeber when I put the engine in my car, the only clutch difference listed in the GSF catalogue was whether the car was an early gearbox car with reverse on the collar, or a late one with the right and back reverse. As I was putting the GT on the road on a limited budget, I didnt replace the clutch with a new one at the time, knowing that I would have to do it at some point soon. Its not that my clutch is worn, its just that im replacing the gearbox so I thought it would be a good idea to fit a new clutch unit.

The Haynes manual talked about a problem mating a post 87 engine with a pre 86 gearbox, but I could see no difference at the time in terms of mating, shaft lenght or diameter etc. It mentioned the need to get hold of a suitable "spignot bush", whatever one of those is? Maybe this is why my gearbox has develloped its noise? I did measure all components that I thought could make any difference and they were all the same as far as I can remember. Any knowledge/experience greatfully received. Cheers, Adam

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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:13 pm

The early box is a BE1, the later one a BE3. AFAIK you can bolt either/or to each others engine.
But the cables are different, as are the linkages.

That clutch there won't fit a BE1 box which is standard on a 19GT as they have totally different thrust bearings.

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Post by adamskibx » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:05 pm

Umm, well im changing to a 1988 (G-Reg cars) TRS box, but I remember the release bearing was identical between the two, and I just used the one that felt the least worn. The GT has reverse in a different place to the TRS one. Maybe the BE1 gearbox got reverse put in a different place towards the end, as, as far as I could tell the shaft, release bearing, release fork etc were all identical. The linkages did look different, but that was it really.

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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:13 pm

thinking about it, it was more the lever arm that is totally different with the two, aside from the fact it enters in a totally different place to each other.
If the box you are fitting is BE3 and reverse is down and right, then that clutch on ebay should fit. If its up and left then it won't, but on G reg it should be BE3.

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m_2975
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gearbox

Post by m_2975 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:20 pm

The new gearbox that you are putting in is most likely a BE3. Therefore the linkages are different. If it is a BE1 then there is not problem with the linkages. The BE1 has reverse across to the left and upwards whilst lifting the collar and the BE3 has reverse across to the left and down.

I have fitted a BE1 to a post 1988 car and also fitted a BE3 to a BX19GT.
From my experience I know that the BE3 on the GT needed all of the linkages changed. The BE3 will take the clutch that is on ebay and the BE3 should bolt straight on to your GT engine. All you need is the linkages and to make sure that the lever arm is the same or you may need a different clutch cable.

The ratios in the BE1 and BE3 are different too. You'll find that the BE3 may make the car a little slower off the mark but not too much. The BE1 in a GTI on the other hand rips up the road every time :wink:
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ken newbold
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Post by ken newbold » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:22 pm

I wouldn't have thought the box itself would make any difference, surely it's just the release bearings that are different and they are available seperately for about a tenner. :?:

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Post by adamskibx » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:32 pm

Umm thanks for the info! Yeah I always wondered why the GT was quoted as being quicker to 60 than the TRS. Its odd that the clutch requirements are different between the two gearboxes. I just used the better looking clutch at the time I did the engine exchange (In fact I remember using the one off the TRS (with right+back reverse), on the GT gearbox (collar, forward/left reverse). I used this one as the donor car had only done about 5000 miles on that clutch according to the service history. Oh well maybe thats why the gearbox has started making odd sounds! I dont want to rule out using the GT gearbox again (perhaps I could swap the input shaft and bearings with the TRS box? I think thats where the noise is coming from)

My plan is to take the car off the road early in September, for three days. Once the gearbox is off, I can make a diagnosis and decide what to do regarding which clutch to buy and so on.

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Post by adamskibx » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:37 pm

Hi Ken. Sorry, you managed to post a whole new reply while I was doing mine! I need to change the gearbox as mine has developed a strange sound, that I think is the input shaft/bearing (im not sure). Having compared the release bearings from the two different gearboxes in detail when I did the engine swap, they were identical. I think maybe the GT BE1, being a late one, and the BE3 from the TRS, being an early one, maybe they had similar parts in areas, but different linkages? Who knows; i think the only way ill ever know is to take it all apart and have a good poke around.

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ken newbold
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Post by ken newbold » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:53 pm

Tom could be your man on this one, but I've only ever come across 2 types of release bearing on BXs. The metal one that suits the linkage with the little metal bar, and the plastic one as used on the 16v and turbo diesel.