Irritating wobble

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Philip Chidlow
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Irritating wobble

Post by Philip Chidlow » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:48 pm

I don't know what's happened recently, but my BX started to vibrate through the steering in a classic wheel-out-of-balance way at between 68mph and 74-ish. So, dutifully took car to a reliable (in the past) tyre emporium and got the wheels balanced. Found one front couldn't be balanced as it was a bit out of shape apparently and one of the rears had a tyre that was not entirely even, so that couldn't be balanced either. The two wheels now on the front are balanced and I was told would be OK. Now the wobble's worse than ever. Am I pi**ed off or what? Time to return and get them to investigate further.

Worse, my growing irritation at getting far too shock and vibration much transmitted to the steering (and the car in general) from imperfections in the road surface has been highlighted by this...

What (other than wheel balance) could contribute to vibration through the steering/front end of car at speed? Is it a case of tired struts and hardening spheres? Drive shaft? This issue has been 'creeping up' on me a bit and I am not really happy with my car's ride at the moment.

Any advice?
• COMING SOON... 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
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Stewart (oily!)
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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:15 am

So the bad tyres are still on rthe car?
Stewart
TZD 19 TD one of the few
Xantia Td estate, going soft

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:54 am

The one very lightly out of shape alloy is now on the back - it is a minor deformation apparently and may well have less effect there than on the front (a replacement is with Tim)... The tyre that was 'uneven' is fine for tread etc. it seems it is the tyre itself that's a bit out of balance. So I will replace that. But why is the wobble still at the front with wheels that are apparently balanced? I will get all wheels double-checked tomorrow.
• COMING SOON... 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
and some Ford tat lol

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Baldbazza
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Post by Baldbazza » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:59 am

Did read something recently (might have been here) about someone who had used a puncture repair aerosol, and the contents had subsequently turned back to liquid and were sloshing about inside the tyre, making it impossible to balance.
1985 BX 19 GT
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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:07 am

AFAIK there's been nothing like that done, but I will investigate further. Update tomorrow.
• COMING SOON... 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
and some Ford tat lol

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Post by jeremy » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:01 pm

Hub and other problems come to mind - you can check some yourself by jacking up the wheel and placing a pointer at it and rotating. Pointer can be something really scientific like a piece of wood stuck in a pile of bricks but obviously the better its made the more likely you are to spot the problem.

Could even be some dirt under the wheel face, or even under the brake disc.

Check tread, sidewalls, rim etc - position pointer, turn wheel and look for the gap opening or closing, and if you find something - investigate.

What better way of spending a Bank Holiday!

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Post by tom » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:15 pm

any tyre out of round will affect the steering. Ever driven a BX with knackered rear arms? I rest my case. Sort the dodgy tyre first.
Shock and vibration on the steering, assuming you've done all the usual checks : Worn driveshaft, wishbone bushes, and the old fave, droplinks. One you may not have considered is the gearchange bellcrank which is mounted on the rack itself.Very heavy grease, tweak with a 16mm spanner or (The hard way,) pull the bolt out and take .015" off the inner spacer. (Works a treat!) There is also a sponge damper on the gearchange rod which wants to be secured with a ty rap or renewed with a better bit of sponge.

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:18 pm

Thanks chaps. Sounds like a logical step-by-step problem solve jobbie. I suspect drop links - but I will get all checked. Another issue has now reared its head - (yet) another LHM drip from an as yet to find return pipe. Suspect n/s strut return pipe. Ho hum.
• COMING SOON... 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
and some Ford tat lol

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mnde
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Post by mnde » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:29 pm

Hi Phil,

My other Meteor had the same symptoms - a classic wheel-balance vibration through the steering at around the same speeds as you are experiencing it. I tried to get the balancing done at a local tyre centre but they sent me away because they didn't have the correct type of balance weights for my wheels in stock......

... but I later got it checked out by Chevronics and he said it was because a *rear* tyre was delaminating / out of true. If you spin the offending wheel by hand when it's up in the air, you'll probably see the tread or the edge of the tyre moving around. I never got the chance to have it changed, cos the HG packed up. I've also experienced the "rear-wheel" steering effect of worn rear arm bearings on my eBay BX, so I can corroborate that problems at the rear can definitely seem to be affecting the front.

Good luck!

Mark.
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate
1997 Renault Mégane RT 1.4e
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - gone to Scotland

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:42 pm

Both rear arm bearings recently done, so can 99% rule that out. Comparitively new P6000 is offending tyre - a manufacturing fault possibly, and a replacement's going on tomorrow. I will do one thing at a time to try and sort this one out. I am also having my local specialist deal with the leak tomorrow and he said he'll check out suspension bushes/components then - but says as it just went through it's MOT (overseen by him) he doesn't think it's anything other than wheel balancing... we shall see.
• COMING SOON... 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
and some Ford tat lol

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Post by Way2go » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:48 pm

Hi Phil, I agree with Marks thoughts above.
I had this once develop on a long journey down th M4. Didn't know what it was and stopped and examined the tyres on 2 occasions but no obvious faults. On the return journey the tyre had a total blow out at 70mph :shock: not nice!
1991 BX19GTi Auto

tim leech

Post by tim leech » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:35 pm

Do you still want the spare alloy phil.

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:42 pm

Yes Pleeeese Tim. It's just finding the time to rendezvous. I'll PM you soon. Cheers. :D
• COMING SOON... 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
and some Ford tat lol

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Post by Philip Chidlow » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:38 am

Update: In fixing the leak, it would appear there's a bit of play in the O/S end of the steering ram. This movement may have caused - well it probably contributed - to the eventual failure of one of the two metal pipes that come out of the...(don't know what it's called - could be pinion valve?) on the ram.

The ram seems to be held in place by biggish bolts at either end, which have a rubber bush - and possibly washers. On the O/S, the rubber seems to have started to break up which would explain the slight play. Is it possible to remove this bolt, replace rubber (or add washers) etc. or is the rubber part of the ram? Is it advisible to just replace the whole unit?

Which brings me to the question: Would slight play in on end of the steering ram cause wobble/vibration similar to wheel imbalance?
• COMING SOON... 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
and some Ford tat lol

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Post by jeremy » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:44 am

No - it might cause a wander but I don't think it would do this either - I think it will just cause a knock to be felt as the steering is operated and the ram takes up the slack.