Wheel Bearing or Driveshaft?

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Wheel Bearing or Driveshaft?

Post by roscoe » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:13 am

Since I got my TZD back on the road after 9+ months without its' head..I have a noise from my left front (nearside) wheel. It is a sort of thumping sound and is definitely speed related - going downhill I can clutch, let the engine idle and the frequency/sound remains the same...and increases/decreases as speed does. I put it up on blocks today and ran it up to 120 mph in 5th and no noise at all - took it out on the road and the noise is there. I'm thinking its' a wheel bearing but want some more opinions before I start dismantling things. I've had wheel bearings go before on other cars and it is usually a rumbling sound, this is more of a thumping one. The tires are new - have only about 5000 kms on them, the disk rotors are not warped, etc. The noise wasn't there before the cam belt went, but the car has been on blocks for 9 months, so I suspected rusty brakes or similar, but that doesn't appear to be the problem.
Also, when I slightly turn the steering wheel at speed, the noise goes away, which again leads me to the wheel bearing as it would be loaded differently in that circumstance and not noisy?


BTW, did the front strut lubrication trick on it and the struts are quiet, smooth and creak-free!
cheers,
Roscoe
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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:42 pm

When my wheel bearings went they made an incredibly loud noise like someone grinding their teeth! it was loud enough to make pedestrians stare, on inspectionl both inner tracks had cracked right across, the noise must have been the balls crossing these cracks, if you were to change a wheelbearing you could strip and re-grease your outer CV joint at the same time, all bases are covered then, good luck
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Post by AlanS » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:52 pm

If those tyres new and all they might be were on the car for 9 months whilst it was laid up, they could be your problem.
The tyres we get out here are absolute crap quality even the so called "brand" name ones.
I had a Michy on a CX do exactly that to me when I drove the car back from Sydney. It hammered like all hell and as I'd had the spheres done just prior to leaving, I was convinced it was a sphere so I changed it about 5 hours into the trip after I had done all the usual checks and couldn't name the problem. 2 hours further down the track it got really bad and by that stage it became evident it was the front near side tyre.
I also had a similar experience on a F**d van but that time it was a NanKang tyre so I deserved it but one of my sons also had it on his BX with reasonably new Michys. The Michelins we get out here that fit BXs also are made I think it's either Chile or Cambodia or somewhere and whilst they may try to say they're made to their specs, they're still crap. Try a front to back tyre swap on both sides and see if it makes a difference before you start getting into the mechanicals.


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Post by DLM » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:13 am

From my recent experience driving a car with a knackered rear wheel bearing, I'd expect a noise that rises in pitch with increasing road speed, whether in gear or neutral. I took it for extra-loud turbo noise until I remembered the sellers description and realised it didn't match enginer speed!

Thumping is something quite different - and remember that a noise that goes away or gets worse on cornering could equally well be a brake disc. Brake discs out of balance, rusty, (or even loose) can cause a variety of squeakings, scrapings and bangings. If the car has been standing for some time, there may be a goodly layer of rust to remove from the disc(s), which may be deposited more thickly in some places than others. Vigourous and frequent application of the brakes may help to shift this, unless it's taken a terminal hold on the disc.

What about the other suspension components such as ball joints? These can cuse the car to rattle around like crazy, particularly over bumps.

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Post by AlanS » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:43 am

David,

What happens out here as a result of crappy quality tyres and extreme road temperatures, is that the outer casing gets an air pocket between the cords and the outer casing and will absolutely knock like all hell without sending any unusal movement through the car.
When the tyre rolls around and goes over the air pocket, it just seems to compress and progressively move into a larger bubble and so doesn't cause a bump as such. They can carry on like that literally for years if the car is only used for short trips. If however, as happened with the CX the car is taken on a long trip and at enough speed for heat to build up, it will keep on growing until the pressure between the two areas builds up and just shreds the tyre. No bangs, no warnings apart from the noise, just all of a sudden you see all this black shit flying up in the air, and that was your tyre. :shock: :?
Unfortunately, I've experienced quite a few; too many of them Michelins too!:oops:


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Post by sleepy0905 » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:45 am

I had same problems couple of months ago on the A1 after stopping several times and finding nothing I was getting P*£#@ off with it till it started gettin real bad :cry: so i pulled of the motorway and had a look round and descovered my N/S rear tyre had bits of wire sticking out all over and lumps of tread falling off but it didnt go pop I diflated it myself.
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Post by roscoe » Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:50 am

Thanks guys
I'll do the front/rear tire swap first to see if that is it...hope not as they only had a few thousand Kms on them when the cam went. I don't think it's the brake rotors - had the wheels off and they aren't rusty at all and both front ones run true - as I said when its up on blocks, there was no noise or vibration at all - just when it's on the road and the weight is on the suspension/tires.
Will let you all know how it goes in the next couple of days.
cheers,
Roscoe
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Post by Mr B » Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:30 pm

I've just come back from a 3000 mile round trip to Spain with vibration and thumping. It was the long drive shaft centre CV which was worn. I'd made one from two before the trip, which didn't work. If you find it is the shaft don't forget to replace the the ouput shaft seal.
Last edited by Mr B on Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by cavmad » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:55 am

Try a front to back tyre swap on both sides and see if it makes a difference before you start getting into the mechanicals.


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Post by roscoe » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:03 am

Tonight I did the front to back tyre swap on both sides and the noise is still the same - still seems to be front nearside. While I had the front wheel off, checked the brake disk and it is clean, shiny, runs true and seems OK. If I jerk up and down on the wheel it feels like there is some play in it, so I'm going to go with the wheel bearing for now...and check the CV joints while I have the hub out...and after all that I'll probably find out it was the inner CV joint or the center bearing on the other side.....
cheers,
Roscoe
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Post by AlanS » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:45 pm

Just for the record; here's a Pirelli P7000 (not a cheap tyre) that's done less than 8000 klms that was posted on a board out here tonight. Check out the bubble in the wall. That'll give you some idea of how great a problem it can be out here.

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/attach ... entid=5775


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Post by DLM » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:49 pm

Alan - sorry : missed the references to tyre bubbles and tread detachment. I've been there too twice, and nasty it most definitely is. THump thump thump thump ....bang! (in the end, though thankfully I've not reached the last stage on-car).

Roscoe: just another thought - I had some speed-related horrible creaking and groaning noises from the drivers-side wheelarch which have turned out to be an absolutely knackered front strut, where the internal seal has gone. I Only realised this after the less-than pervious strut return pipes started to spray a fine mist of LHM all arounf the rear of the wheel arch and subframe. Beforehand I'd thought of driveshaft/CV joint (in and out like a yo-yo in the last few months) for various reasons.

I'm just about to swap in a known good strut and confidently expect the noise to disappear. Will post with findings.

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Re: Wheel Bearing or Driveshaft?

Post by DoubleChevron » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:59 am

roscoe wrote:Since I got my TZD back on the road after 9+ months without its' head..I have a noise from my left front (nearside) wheel. It is a sort of thumping sound and is definitely speed related - going downhill I can clutch, let the engine idle and the frequency/sound remains the same...and increases/decreases as speed does. I put it up on blocks today and ran it up to 120 mph in 5th and no noise at all - took it out on the road and the noise is there. I'm thinking its' a wheel bearing but want some more opinions before I start dismantling things. I've had wheel bearings go before on other cars and it is usually a rumbling sound, this is more of a thumping one. The tires are new - have only about 5000 kms on them, the disk rotors are not warped, etc. The noise wasn't there before the cam belt went, but the car has been on blocks for 9 months, so I suspected rusty brakes or similar, but that doesn't appear to be the problem.
Also, when I slightly turn the steering wheel at speed, the noise goes away, which again leads me to the wheel bearing as it would be loaded differently in that circumstance and not noisy?


BTW, did the front strut lubrication trick on it and the struts are quiet, smooth and creak-free!
I've found wheel bearings get MUCH noisier when you apply force onto the dead bearing (ie: turn one direction), and quieter when you turn the other direction (ie: remove force from the bearing).

Have you checked the driveshaft intermediate bearing ??? I it squeal just like any other bearing when it needs to be replaced.

seeya,
Shane L.

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Post by roscoe » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:09 pm

So I can say it's not the near side wheel bearing, brake or CV joint on that side - all are A1. Now looking at intermediate bearing on off side - :x :x . Good tip about the struts, David, but I'm pretty sure they are OK - the noise is absolutely speed related - it increases and decreased directly as road speed does, so has to be in the drive train. There is no noise when the car is up on blocks and running in gear (up to 120 indicated), but when on the ground and the drivetrain has load on it, the noise is there. Also hammering the brakes or driving with them slightly on makes no difference, so I figure it isn't brake related. Bloody mystery which will be solved :?
cheers,
Roscoe
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Post by AlanS » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:16 pm

Flatspots on tyres from standing so long??

I've still got my money on it being tyre related.


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